Sub Grade Cost 1 1

[xjdan89]

Why does it cost $10 extra for sub grades? 

Here me out. The grading professionals aren't doing anything extra - they obviously know what the sub grades are as they're grading the card itself. I'm willing to bet that the sub grades are stored in a database somewhere (because every company is data hungry these days, why wouldn't you keep that info). Especially when a customer gets a 10 or 9.5 back and wants to resubmit with sub grades - it'll be handy to have those in the system ready to go. 

I know ink isn't free, but does it really cost $10 to print a few extra characters on the label? The cost doesn't seem to justify itself. I could see doing a few bucks extra, sure. With the price point being $10 it really just feels like a cash grab. ESPECIALLY when my first few bulk orders were $8 a card. How does it take $10 to print a few extra characters on a label when the cost to grade was originally only $8. Is there a way CSG can justify the high price tag for such a minor addition?

[NicholePer]

On 8/28/2021 at 4:41 PM, xjdan89 said:

Why does it cost $10 extra for sub grades? 

Here me out. The grading professionals aren't doing anything extra - they obviously know what the sub grades are as they're grading the card itself. I'm willing to bet that the sub grades are stored in a database somewhere (because every company is data hungry these days, why wouldn't you keep that info). Especially when a customer gets a 10 or 9.5 back and wants to resubmit with sub grades - it'll be handy to have those in the system ready to go. 

I know ink isn't free, but does it really cost $10 to print a few extra characters on the label? The cost doesn't seem to justify itself. I could see doing a few bucks extra, sure. With the price point being $10 it really just feels like a cash grab. ESPECIALLY when my first few bulk orders were $8 a card. How does it take $10 to print a few extra characters on a label when the cost to grade was originally only $8. Is there a way CSG can justify the high price tag for such a minor addition?

Thank you for your question. Grading subs requires a more detailed look into the centering—for primary front and back designs within the frame of the cardstock as intended by the original design, surface, edges and corners— for visual and structural integrity of the card. It takes more time to grade subs for those reasons and every card that receives subs has to be individually looked at. 

[DHoey07]

On 8/30/2021 at 6:46 AM, NicholePer said:

Thank you for your question. Grading subs requires a more detailed look into the centering—for primary front and back designs within the frame of the cardstock as intended by the original design, surface, edges and corners— for visual and structural integrity of the card. It takes more time to grade subs for those reasons and every card that receives subs has to be individually looked at. 

So you are saying they are graded to a different standard???  They are looked at differently?

[ne1seenmykeys]

On 8/28/2021 at 1:41 PM, xjdan89 said:

Why does it cost $10 extra for sub grades? 

Here me out. The grading professionals aren't doing anything extra - they obviously know what the sub grades are as they're grading the card itself. I'm willing to bet that the sub grades are stored in a database somewhere (because every company is data hungry these days, why wouldn't you keep that info). Especially when a customer gets a 10 or 9.5 back and wants to resubmit with sub grades - it'll be handy to have those in the system ready to go. 

I know ink isn't free, but does it really cost $10 to print a few extra characters on the label? The cost doesn't seem to justify itself. I could see doing a few bucks extra, sure. With the price point being $10 it really just feels like a cash grab. ESPECIALLY when my first few bulk orders were $8 a card. How does it take $10 to print a few extra characters on a label when the cost to grade was originally only $8. Is there a way CSG can justify the high price tag for such a minor addition?

DUDE YES!! If they offered a price of just a few bucks or a couple bucks for subgrades I would literally get them on every single card, which, in the end gets CSG more money than if I only get them on higher-priced cards! Win-win!

 

On 8/30/2021 at 6:46 AM, NicholePer said:

Thank you for your question. Grading subs requires a more detailed look into the centering—for primary front and back designs within the frame of the cardstock as intended by the original design, surface, edges and corners— for visual and structural integrity of the card. It takes more time to grade subs for those reasons and every card that receives subs has to be individually looked at. 

I think I'm confused here. I thought the human interaction with the cards was basically to shore up what the computer has graded via AI technology, meaning there is a human element to every card that goes through there. 

I guess I'm missing something here, bc how is there a more detailed look into the card's centering if it needs subgrades? Wouldn't each card be graded the same exact way regardless of it is getting subgrades or not? 

Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting something here, but I'm curious just like OP to see the answer to this. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by ne1seenmykeys
misspellings

[xjdan89]

Thank you CSG for responding to my question, but honestly this has raised more concerns than alleviated. It really feels like there are two sets of standards now when it comes to grading. Does this mean a CSG 10 without sub-grades is "less than" a CSG 10 with sub grades (I'm not talking visual appearance of the label here - I'm talking actual grading process/scrutiny)? Two different standards entirely? Isn't that essentially going to render any pop report (assuming one is coming in the future) irrelevant (unless sub grades are baked into the pop report equation, which would likely be a mess to visualize). 

 

[ne1seenmykeys]

On 8/30/2021 at 11:22 AM, xjdan89 said:

Thank you CSG for responding to my question, but honestly this has raised more concerns than alleviated. It really feels like there are two sets of standards now when it comes to grading. Does this mean a CSG 10 without sub-grades is "less than" a CSG 10 with sub grades (I'm not talking visual appearance of the label here - I'm talking actual grading process/scrutiny)? Two different standards entirely? Isn't that essentially going to render any pop report (assuming one is coming in the future) irrelevant (unless sub grades are baked into the pop report equation, which would likely be a mess to visualize). 

 

@NicholePerIs there any way you could clarify this please? Thank you in advance. 

[Rob420]

On 8/28/2021 at 4:41 PM, xjdan89 said:

Why does it cost $10 extra for sub grades? 

Here me out. The grading professionals aren't doing anything extra - they obviously know what the sub grades are as they're grading the card itself. I'm willing to bet that the sub grades are stored in a database somewhere (because every company is data hungry these days, why wouldn't you keep that info). Especially when a customer gets a 10 or 9.5 back and wants to resubmit with sub grades - it'll be handy to have those in the system ready to go. 

I know ink isn't free, but does it really cost $10 to print a few extra characters on the label? The cost doesn't seem to justify itself. I could see doing a few bucks extra, sure. With the price point being $10 it really just feels like a cash grab. ESPECIALLY when my first few bulk orders were $8 a card. How does it take $10 to print a few extra characters on a label when the cost to grade was originally only $8. Is there a way CSG can justify the high price tag for such a minor addition?

why , the answer is simple , they are greedy for money , they already do the sub grades when they grade the card and to add the grades to the label is about .05 cents of ink if that and shouldnt take anymore time to print them out esp when everything is enterted to a printer. They upcharge for evrything , auto grade , sub grades and thicker slabs , the real question is why are they the only ones who add on all these extra charges ? 

[Warner85]

On 9/22/2021 at 1:57 PM, ne1seenmykeys said:

@NicholePerIs there any way you could clarify this please? Thank you in advance. 

Would really like to see an Admin response to this..

[Picklepete]

They are figuring out their canned response.. I don't see them addressing this, it could get messy.. 

[iam12fear]

I don't understand why everybody is crying about $10 subs. Beckett now charges $15, and as much as $125 for subs. And it was obvious from the start that there would be two different grading processes for subs vs no subs with CSG. Why else would they need to add 5 days to the grading time?

[Lerxst]

On 8/28/2021 at 4:41 PM, xjdan89 said:

Why does it cost $10 extra for sub grades? 

Here me out. The grading professionals aren't doing anything extra - they obviously know what the sub grades are as they're grading the card itself. I'm willing to bet that the sub grades are stored in a database somewhere (because every company is data hungry these days, why wouldn't you keep that info). Especially when a customer gets a 10 or 9.5 back and wants to resubmit with sub grades - it'll be handy to have those in the system ready to go. 

I know ink isn't free, but does it really cost $10 to print a few extra characters on the label? The cost doesn't seem to justify itself. I could see doing a few bucks extra, sure. With the price point being $10 it really just feels like a cash grab. ESPECIALLY when my first few bulk orders were $8 a card. How does it take $10 to print a few extra characters on a label when the cost to grade was originally only $8. Is there a way CSG can justify the high price tag for such a minor addition?

Agreed. Its an excessive amount. $2 more would be much more inline with the service you're getting. Like you said they've already formed a grade at least on paper in the process of grading the card as a whole so how does that justify $10 extra per card? IMO it doesnt

[Rob420]

ill be shocked if you get a response from an admin about that , i agree with you 100% . They upcharge for everything but it comes down to greed .

[Rob420]

On 9/25/2021 at 6:34 PM, Warner85 said:

Would really like to see an Admin response to this..

good luck 

[Prime Sports Cards]

I think a Pandora's box has been opened here, the cost to sub grade is now secondary. If there are two standards to their grading system, they might as well close the shop. You can't shake people down for sub grades to get "undivided" attention to a card. If that's the case, they need to be real transparent on the website and let people decide for themselves.

[oluckydayo]

On 9/27/2021 at 8:51 AM, KD Cards said:

I think a Pandora's box has been opened here, the cost to sub grade is now secondary. If there are two standards to their grading system, they might as well close the shop. You can't shake people down for sub grades to get "undivided" attention to a card. If that's the case, they need to be real transparent on the website and let people decide for themselves.

I'd be willing to be that's a misinformed message above and there are not 'two standards'.  I think it's as simple as they already have fairly low prices among their competitors for most tiers, and it's a way to recoup some of that for cards that customers will want subgrades on.

[xjdan89]

On 8/30/2021 at 8:46 AM, NicholePer said:

Thank you for your question. Grading subs requires a more detailed look into the centering—for primary front and back designs within the frame of the cardstock as intended by the original design, surface, edges and corners— for visual and structural integrity of the card. It takes more time to grade subs for those reasons and every card that receives subs has to be individually looked at. 

Clear as day. There are two grading standards. A 10 without subs may actually be a 9.5, or 9.... or maybe a 7.5 with subs.... Pretty clear explanation, and now I get it. Two different standards. 

Unfortunately, I hate that answer. I have gotten back several 10's w/o subs and was considering resubmitting them w/ subs because a 10 w/ subs is visually more appealing. However, I'm planning on doing an SGC crossover now. I hate that CSG maintains two different grading standards and disguises them as one (under the same label, brand, etc...). It seems deceiving, and wrong. 

I would've preferred an answer like "we're greedy". That would've been better than "we maintain two different grading standards and haven't told you all along". 

Edited September 27, 2021 by xjdan89

[Rob420]

On 9/26/2021 at 6:50 PM, Picklepete said:

They are figuring out their canned response.. I don't see them addressing this, it could get messy.. 

they wont cause its something they see as negitive 

[RyanCSG]

We apologize for the confusion here. Our basic service is no sub-grades, and we offer our customers the option to add subgrades to their cards for cards they feel would benefit from having sub-grades. Subgrades are not our standard service, and they do take longer in the grading process. In order to offer the same quality service to all customers, we charge a fee for the additional add-on service of subgrades.

[Rob420]

On 9/27/2021 at 12:07 PM, RyanCSG said:

We apologize for the confusion here. Our basic service is no sub-grades, and we offer our customers the option to add subgrades to their cards for cards they feel would benefit from having sub-grades. Subgrades are not our standard service, and they do take longer in the grading process. In order to offer the same quality service to all customers, we charge a fee for the additional add-on service of subgrades.

can you answer daddy pig question , and really answer it . 

[PunsRTonsOfFun]

On 9/27/2021 at 11:07 AM, RyanCSG said:

We apologize for the confusion here. Our basic service is no sub-grades, and we offer our customers the option to add subgrades to their cards for cards they feel would benefit from having sub-grades. Subgrades are not our standard service, and they do take longer in the grading process. In order to offer the same quality service to all customers, we charge a fee for the additional add-on service of subgrades.

I think the question is are cards graded with subgrades held to a higher standard than those without? If this is case, it would have been nice to know before I submitted and will likely determine whether I submit with CSG again in the future. I've defended CSG on this forum and social media at every turn, understanding that a new company would have growing pains given the current state of the hobby. If there are two different grading standards based on subgrades and it wasn't publicly disclosed, I can't and won't defend that.

[Yeahiwasder4dat]

On 9/27/2021 at 12:38 PM, PunsRTonsOfFun said:

I think the question is are cards graded with subgrades held to a higher standard than those without? If this is case, it would have been nice to know before I submitted and will likely determine whether I submit with CSG again in the future. I've defended CSG on this forum and social media at every turn, understanding that a new company would have growing pains given the current state of the hobby. If there are two different grading standards based on subgrades and it wasn't publicly disclosed, I can't and won't defend that.

That's exactly what it sounded like in the first response on here. Not sure how you can walk that back, but I'd always have doubts from this point forward regardless of what's said tbh.

Also, at the bottom of that response it says they're all individually looked at??? Like what, they just throwing grades on cards arbitrarily without looking at them.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Yeahiwasder4dat

[Warner85]

On 9/27/2021 at 11:45 AM, Yeahiwasder4dat said:

That's exactly what it sounded like in the first response on here. Not sure how you can walk that back, but I'd always have doubts from this point forward regardless of what's said tbh.

Also, at the bottom of that response it says they're all individually looked at??? Like what, they just throwing grades on cards arbitrarily without looking at them.

I don’t know about everyone else but on my orders (subgrades and no subgrades), I actually got a higher average grade with the subs since they actually have to explain the grade. I got subs since the value of the cards were higher not because they were better condition also. I’m sure that’s not the same for everyone and I’m not known to defend csg but that’s just my experience so far. If having subs does affect the grade it hasn’t been for the worse with mine. Either way it would be great if we could get a better explanation.

[jwhauser]

Lots of haters in here. 

Call customer service and get an explanation.  I'm guessing it was an ill-informed employee that either didn't have the facts straight or was told wrong.  You're not going to have one of the leading graders in the industry conducting shady business by having two different standards of grading.  They would've left CSG by now if that was the case.  Beckett Grading Services offer the same service for sub grades.  I'm sure for the same reason:  takes a little bit of extra time to record the information and then place those scores on the label and online.

Or contact the mother company, Certified Collectibles Group, if you are questioning the ethics of CSG.  Posting messages in here aren't providing the answers you're looking for.

[Yeahiwasder4dat]

On 9/27/2021 at 1:28 PM, jwhauser said:

Lots of haters in here. 

I'm sure for the same reason:  takes a little bit of extra time to record the information and then place those scores on the label and online.

Can't get a Perfect 10 w/o subs. Seems a little suspect.

5 days, and $10 a card?

[jwhauser]

Yeah, I was questioning that at first also.  Beckett actually started that practice with the Black Labels.  You can not get a BGS Black Label unless you pay for the sub-grade service.

Beckett offers same service for $15 on its lower tier of service.  CSG doesn't change based on speed of the service or the value of the card.  BGS premium service will charge you $125 for sub-grades.  $10 seems reasonable.

Going back to the expense of sub grades, I get it.  If you are doing a bulk submission of lower-mid end cards, it's not worth paying for the sub-grades.  You could get 11 cards graded at the bulk submission rate OR 6 cards with sub-grades.  The more you put into the card the more you need to get out of it in order to break even or make money.

All of my PC and high-end cards get the sub grade service.  It's just for my piece of mind and an explanation of why the card scored the way it did.  I look at the sub-grade service as an option.  You either need it for an expense or you don't.

Everyone will look at this differently.  I'm more concerned about people questioning the ethics of a company and their grading standards.  Especially when the parent company is a leader of grading and authentication in other collectible areas.