Review of Jordan Refractor with CSG Customer Service
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At the request of CSG customer service, I have provided them with front and back photographs of the Jordan refractor card that they originally graded at a 7.5. I have consulted with numerous people in the sports card grading field, and the consensus is that the card should have graded at an 8.5 or nine. I would be fine with such a grade, but the 7.5 that CSG gave the card is, in my opinion overly strict, especially for a card that is affected in value greatly by the downgrade it received. The difference between the first year Jordan refractor at a 7.5 and that of an 8.5 or nine is potentially thousands of dollars. Ordinarily, I would just take my lumps And be done with it, but there is too much money involved and too many questions as to why it received such a low grade. I’ll keep you posted.

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Has CSG given you any idea why it was graded so low? It had to be the surface grade, right? I’m getting the impression that their AI picks up on things the human eye can’t see and am curious if that is what happened here. Keep us posted. 

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2 hours ago, Ddunn1010 said:

Has CSG given you any idea why it was graded so low? It had to be the surface grade, right? I’m getting the impression that their AI picks up on things the human eye can’t see and am curious if that is what happened here. Keep us posted. 

That’s why I wrote customer service and sent them the pictures. I needed an explanation and obviously I didn’t get subs so I’d like to know because the corners are sharp, the edges are perfect the centering is the only thing that I can see that might’ve been slightly off, and the surface was perfect under 30x lighted magnification. There certainly isn’t enough to downgrade it to a 7.5. I’ll let you know what they say if they respond.

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Thanks for your input. I’m not sure exactly why they dinged me so bad, but I have submitted a question with pictures to customer service and I will let you know what they say if they respond.

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Crack and resubmit somewhere else.  It seems like CSG is one of the toughest graders which I see as a good thing.  I have PSA 10 cards with obvious dings on a corner.  For what it’s worth there are a lot of people on Blowout complaining about how strict PSA has been with recent returns 

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I suppose I could do that, but I’d like to wait and see what the grades are on the rest of the cards. I have 98 other cards waiting to be graded, but this one was the most valuable potentially. Thanks for your advice though.

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On 5/19/2021 at 1:12 PM, MDBLAW said:

That’s why I wrote customer service and sent them the pictures. I needed an explanation and obviously I didn’t get subs so I’d like to know because the corners are sharp, the edges are perfect the centering is the only thing that I can see that might’ve been slightly off, and the surface was perfect under 30x lighted magnification. There certainly isn’t enough to downgrade it to a 7.5. I’ll let you know what they say if they respond.

It possibly might have been something they picked up with their infrared and/or uv technology 

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On 5/22/2021 at 10:25 AM, MDBLAW said:

Thanks for your input. I’m not sure exactly why they dinged me so bad, but I have submitted a question with pictures to customer service and I will let you know what they say if they respond.

Just to close out this thread, CSG customer service got back to me and said the reason for the 7.5 grade on the Jordan Refractor was “greening” of the surface of the card. Not sure exactly how that affects the grade by 2.5 points, as it really seems like a BS justification to me. I guess I have to live with it now. 

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On 5/19/2021 at 3:51 PM, MDBLAW said:

At the request of CSG customer service, I have provided them with front and back photographs of the Jordan refractor card that they originally graded at a 7.5. I have consulted with numerous people in the sports card grading field, and the consensus is that the card should have graded at an 8.5 or nine. I would be fine with such a grade, but the 7.5 that CSG gave the card is, in my opinion overly strict, especially for a card that is affected in value greatly by the downgrade it received. The difference between the first year Jordan refractor at a 7.5 and that of an 8.5 or nine is potentially thousands of dollars. Ordinarily, I would just take my lumps And be done with it, but there is too much money involved and too many questions as to why it received such a low grade. I’ll keep you posted.

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did ya see any other 94 topps finest refractors graded some cards just dont grade well, i think csg is fair but sometimes way to harsh on surface it scares me I got some older refractors i wanna submit that are sharp but dont wanna get hit that hard on a surface issue no one can see, i think every grading company your gonna have to crack a case and send it out again ha but its a beautiful card n looks great in that slab goodluck 

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Every card I have seen has been graded way too hard on surface. If this keeps up what's the point of losing money on every card just to get "tough" (overgraded) cards to submit with another company or not get any value out of. I have 2 cards I submitted and 2 I have bought on eBay, all 9's and I can't find anything wrong with them. If they are doing 30x magnification that's way to much! These are the best slabs on the market for clarity and feel. But overgrading cards just to not seem overly easy is garbage and is effecting peoples resale value in a very bad way. The majority of people get cards graded to help with resale value and 9's aren't selling for even raw prices.

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On 11/24/2021 at 3:45 PM, bball8418 said:

Every card I have seen has been graded way too hard on surface. If this keeps up what's the point of losing money on every card just to get "tough" (overgraded) cards to submit with another company or not get any value out of. I have 2 cards I submitted and 2 I have bought on eBay, all 9's and I can't find anything wrong with them. If they are doing 30x magnification that's way to much! These are the best slabs on the market for clarity and feel. But overgrading cards just to not seem overly easy is garbage and is effecting peoples resale value in a very bad way. The majority of people get cards graded to help with resale value and 9's aren't selling for even raw prices.

Agreed.And  the strict grading especially when it comes to a card like a Jordan refractor can cost you a lot of money. 

Edited by MDBLAW
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I just received the grades for one of my bulk orders and I noticed the 95 Marshall Faulk I sent in had an unexpected real low grade. It doesnt have any real physical issues so I'm assuming it's indeed the Topps Finest discoloration issue that is being grading harshly. It still has the coating on it and I noticed that PSA had a lot of discolored cards with high grades so I figured it would be better.  It is what it is, I always like the card (I pulled it back in the day) and I don't care about the value.  I thought for $8 it would look better in a CSG slab.. Just as a fyi: This card was never exposed to humidity or sun.  It has iterally in a California closet for 20 years so this had to be the result of the chemicals used.  The green HULK color really pops with the CSG green HAHA.  

Side note:  I pulled 2 of those same Jordan refractors at a card shop in Napa, CA out of a single jumbo pack.  They were just slightly stuck together and both were in great condition.  I paid like $8 for the pack and the shop owner paid me $150 on the spot for one of the 2 refractors. The second one I sold on eBay in the late 90s for like $175...  Sometimes when you win you actually lose in the long run lol

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Edited by magiconlineshop
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Thanks for the interesting and illuminating story. Like you, I pulled that Jordan refractor  back in the day and it was in a closet for a quarter-century. I personally think that these grading companies need to have a set of universal standards they all adhere to so people like me don’t get screwed out of a big payday when the guy who got the same card graded a 9-9.5 got big $$. Oh well life goes on and the polar ice continues to melt! 

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I hear you -- Don't feel bad -- I just got 2 orders back with over 300 cards.  I will be cracking over 200 of them out of their worthless holders!!!

 

I have been grading cards since the 90s -- nobody has tried to insult my intelligence like this in a long time.   Lots and lots of 7.5s and 8.5s -- and cards that should have been easy 9s or higher.  Out of 128 cards in my last order --- 4 cards earned better than an 8.5 --- and NONE abouve a 9!  This is from a company who has 3 grades above a 9! 

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On 5/22/2021 at 12:29 PM, rms13 said:

Crack and resubmit somewhere else.  It seems like CSG is one of the toughest graders which I see as a good thing.  I have PSA 10 cards with obvious dings on a corner.  For what it’s worth there are a lot of people on Blowout complaining about how strict PSA has been with recent returns 

yeah i seen some recent psa reveals seen some harsh grades it might depend on the grader or sick of the reputation for being too lenient

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On 5/19/2021 at 7:12 PM, MDBLAW said:

That’s why I wrote customer service and sent them the pictures. I needed an explanation and obviously I didn’t get subs so I’d like to know because the corners are sharp, the edges are perfect the centering is the only thing that I can see that might’ve been slightly off, and the surface was perfect under 30x lighted magnification. There certainly isn’t enough to downgrade it to a 7.5. I’ll let you know what they say if they respond.

sometimes its the etching, the etching could be off or flattened i guess, those cards tuff grades but a 7.5 harsh 

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On 11/24/2021 at 6:45 PM, bball8418 said:

Every card I have seen has been graded way too hard on surface. If this keeps up what's the point of losing money on every card just to get "tough" (overgraded) cards to submit with another company or not get any value out of. I have 2 cards I submitted and 2 I have bought on eBay, all 9's and I can't find anything wrong with them. If they are doing 30x magnification that's way to much! These are the best slabs on the market for clarity and feel. But overgrading cards just to not seem overly easy is garbage and is effecting peoples resale value in a very bad way. The majority of people get cards graded to help with resale value and 9's aren't selling for even raw prices.

greening is a tuff pill to swallow, cant believe someone on this chat heard of it, thanx for the update I was curious what brought that down, resell prices for csg are going up a little especially for higher value cards theres evidence that csg's strategy of tuffer grading is working a little check out a youtuber who compares slab prices csg is selling for substantially higher then psa n sgc but mostly for cards over 5G's but itll trickle down to lower end cards eventually, hopefully 

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On 12/17/2021 at 4:47 PM, Finster said:

I hear you -- Don't feel bad -- I just got 2 orders back with over 300 cards.  I will be cracking over 200 of them out of their worthless holders!!!

 

I have been grading cards since the 90s -- nobody has tried to insult my intelligence like this in a long time.   Lots and lots of 7.5s and 8.5s -- and cards that should have been easy 9s or higher.  Out of 128 cards in my last order --- 4 cards earned better than an 8.5 --- and NONE abouve a 9!  This is from a company who has 3 grades above a 9! 

maybe your eye isnt as good as ya think i watched hundreds of csg reveals and been gettin my own cards graded there might be 1 or 2 dissappointing grades but for the most part you can see where ya got hit especially if ya get subgrades ya got 124 cards of less then 8.5's that is crazy!! and your plan is to crack all 124 cards under 8.5 and get all grades above 9? If you do that successfully I will give you my entire collection! no wildly_fanciful_statement but you said 200 cards your cracking and resending if you get a grade above for all them cards ill give you my collection! 🤝 maybe give me a decent card if ya fail after all im puttin up alot ( and ya gotta sub to a major company not some acronym no one heard of) 

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CSG is getting punished on blowout for their harsh grading. I have two cards where I believe their math is off when it comes to centering. 

The worst was a George Brett cert 1013074003, where the centering seems like a 6, not 4.5, judging by counting the pixels. It certainly is off center, but using one of the centering tools, or counting pixels, it seems like a miss. Judge for yourself.

Being a tough grader is one thing (which is good), but being overly punitive is not going to help CSG long term.

 

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