Here’s the Jordan refractor graded 7.5 2 2

[MDBLAW]

These are the best pictures I could upload given the file size restrictions of this website. After examining the card when I received it in the case, I am even more convinced that this should have graded at an 8.5 or higher. I just feel screwed. Please give me your feedback. Maybe I’m wrong.Maybe I’m wrong.

[MDBLAW]

Maybe the card is not perfectly centered left to right. That’s the only flaw I see taking into account all the stated criteria for their grading process. Otherwise, the corners are crisp the edges are perfect and the face of the card is beautiful.

[MDBLAW]

[ItismeH]

6 hours ago, MDBLAW said:

Maybe the card is not perfectly centered left to right. That’s the only flaw I see taking into account all the stated criteria for their grading process. Otherwise, the corners are crisp the edges are perfect and the face of the card is beautiful.

Sweet card! I think you got dinged on the front centering, top to bottom, not sure what else

[Andy Gardecki]

This is a really good example of why it might be worth the $10 for subs.  Without knowing what they dinged you for it's tough to tell from just the pictures.  With a refractor from what I've seen it oftentimes comes down to a poor surface grade.  The centering might be 8-8.5 (can't imagine it's worse) but that's not going to cause a 7.5.  The edges and corners look good in the pictures, but it's so hard to see the surface.  

[MDBLAW]

Andy, you are so right. My tendencies towards being a cheap person got the best of me, but I won’t let it happen again. I should’ve spent the extra 40 bucks for the sub grades. Lesson learned. This is my first foray into card grading.

[Andy Gardecki]

8 minutes ago, MDBLAW said:

Andy, you are so right. My tendencies towards being a cheap person got the best of me, but I won’t let it happen again. I should’ve spent the extra 40 bucks for the sub grades. Lesson learned. This is my first foray into card grading.

I've been out of the hobby for about 15 years (kids took up my time) so now that I decided to get back in I realized I had to grade some.  First one I graded was a Steph Curry Crown Royale auto rc and I used PSA.  Was almost certain it was a 10 when I sent it and they returned it as a 8.  I realized right then that regardless of the prices for PSA graded cards, I didn't want to get blind grades back with no explanation.  I moved to CSG and while I'm not happy with the slowness of the service, the cards I have gotten back were fairly graded and the sub grades let me know exactly what to look for in the future.

[MDBLAW]

Thanks Andy. I appreciate the advice and we are in a similar position as I have just gotten back into cards after raising my children. All of the stuff I have is pre-2010 and the vast majority, some 20,000 cards are from the early 1970s through 2006.

[The_Reverend283]

Although PSA does not do subs, I think subs help the card value a great deal. 

[RKgant]

Subs are a must in my opinion. I would imagine that with the PSA news release in June/July, they will have to add sub grades.  People seem to prefer a 9 with subgrades to a 9 without it (I don't have proof, it just seems to be the case).

It also seems that as volume has been forced to CSG and SGC due to the PSA shutdown, more investors/collectors have submitted to these alternatives, and they are getting more comfortable with things not-PSA. Hopefully price convergence continues.

[ItismeH]

1 hour ago, RKgant said:

Subs are a must in my opinion. I would imagine that with the PSA news release in June/July, they will have to add sub grades.  People seem to prefer a 9 with subgrades to a 9 without it (I don't have proof, it just seems to be the case).

It also seems that as volume has been forced to CSG and SGC due to the PSA shutdown, more investors/collectors have submitted to these alternatives, and they are getting more comfortable with things not-PSA. Hopefully price convergence continues.

From what it looks like from Nat Turner, one of head honchos at PSA, subgrades are not in the future for them. I'm just glad CSG is able to thrive even more since the top dog shut down. Competition is good.

[RKgant]

15 hours ago, ItismeH said:

From what it looks like from Nat Turner, one of head honchos at PSA, subgrades are not in the future for them. I'm just glad CSG is able to thrive even more since the top dog shut down. Competition is good.

I don't know how they can compete without offering subgrades. How long can brand alone overcome an inferior product? Their grading is not tougher than others (they award more 10's than SCG), their labels can't really be perceived to 'look' so much better, no subs, more people submitting and getting familiar with SCG, CSG, etc... we will se how this shakes out.

[ItismeH]

8 hours ago, RKgant said:

I don't know how they can compete without offering subgrades. How long can brand alone overcome an inferior product? Their grading is not tougher than others (they award more 10's than SCG), their labels can't really be perceived to 'look' so much better, no subs, more people submitting and getting familiar with SCG, CSG, etc... we will se how this shakes out.

I'm with you. I definitely don't believe in PSA all that much and don't have too much confidence in them.

[JJrad]

On 5/14/2021 at 9:28 PM, ItismeH said:

Sweet card! I think you got dinged on the front centering, top to bottom, not sure what else

I agree I think it’s top bottom centering, I experienced this

 

[MDBLAW]

JJ I agree but do you think it’s bad enough to downgrade it 2 1/2 points?

[JJrad]

Not really I’m guessing the centering was 6.5 which would mean even if the other grades were 9.5’s the highest grade would be 7.5

😳

Edited May 20, 2021 by JJrad
Addition message

[MDBLAW]

I’ve measured the centering and it is not a 6.5. At worst it’s a 7.5 and even if the rest were 8 1/2 or nine‘s it should still come out to an eight. Doesn’t matter it is what it is right?

Edited May 20, 2021 by MDBLAW

[ItismeH]

3 hours ago, JJrad said:

I agree I think it’s top bottom centering, I experienced this

 

I was referring to the MJ, not sure why the Kobe card is there

[Butche]

Possibly "greening"on MJ which would affect surface grade. Chrome and Finest suffers in time due to this. Just a possibility.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Butche
Misspelling

[ne1seenmykeys]

On 5/15/2021 at 9:04 AM, MDBLAW said:

Andy, you are so right. My tendencies towards being a cheap person got the best of me, but I won’t let it happen again. I should’ve spent the extra 40 bucks for the sub grades. Lesson learned. This is my first foray into card grading.

Bro it's only $10 extra for subs, not $40, so if that is what is holding you back then get the subs!

[ne1seenmykeys]

On 5/19/2021 at 7:12 PM, MDBLAW said:

I’ve measured the centering and it is not a 6.5. At worst it’s a 7.5 and even if the rest were 8 1/2 or nine‘s it should still come out to an eight. Doesn’t matter it is what it is right?

If you got that low of a grade on a card that otherwise looks great then it's the surface, guaranteed. CSG's algorithm places the greatest importance on surface so even if you have 9, 9, 9 but a 5 on surface you're still going to get like a 6-6.5 grade. On a card like this, not to be rude, but you GOTTA spring for the subgrades, esp at only $10

Plus, it'a a Topps Finest and they are absolutely renowned for fading, greening, etc. 

Also, I'm just being very honest with you here - without the card in hand, esp on surface issues, it's going to be impossible for any of us to tell. 

[MDBLAW]

I hear you. I definitely would have gotten subgrades had I been experienced in card grading at all. Especially for this card. It really should’ve been graded at an eight or 8.5 but it is what it is now. Live and learn!

Edited June 15, 2022 by MDBLAW

[northkorea]

On 6/15/2022 at 9:43 AM, MDBLAW said:

I hear you. I definitely would have gotten subgrades had I been experienced in card grading at all. Especially for this card. It really should’ve been graded at an eight or 8.5 but it is what it is now. Live and learn!

I think the 7.5 is fair. The skintone areas seem to exhibit greening, there is an apparent vertical refractor line (and a shade of a horizontal one), and the L/R centering looks 67/33.

Is the reverse centering closer to 80/20?

[ne1seenmykeys]

On 6/15/2022 at 12:43 PM, MDBLAW said:

I hear you. I definitely would have gotten subgrades had I been experienced in card grading at all. Especially for this card. It really should’ve been graded at an eight or 8.5 but it is what it is now. Live and learn!

I'm going to slightly push back on this and say that Occam's Razor is at play here, and that I simply disagree with you. 

You have already admitted you aren't experienced in grading, right? 

CSG is established from a company that is literally *the* industry standard in comic book grading, they have *massive* financial backing from multiple arenas, use a very sophisticated AI grading process to make sure every card is graded to the same standard and they have, quite literally, at minimum, hundreds of employees with a combined tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of hours in the hobby. Also, after the AI does its thing it goes through a human quality assurance process, as well, so there are even checks and balances for any mistakes in the AI being too harsh for whatever reason. 

I'm not saying it's impossible that your card could have gotten an 8 or 8.5. What I'm saying is that I trust the word and (very) tough grades that CSG gives out. It really lets you know where your collection stands in terms of just how nice the cards are. If you have a high number-graded CSG collection you can rest assured that you have one of the best out there in terms of quality. 

But you have to earn it, and I'd say this card is exactly right at a 7.5

Look bro, this is a sick card. It looks great! And that set is notorious to have unfavorable grades as the years wear on, and people in the hobby know that. 

Here is the upside to this card - as the Fanatics takeover deepens and more money starts being thrown at CSG and the overall hobby starts to realize just how good CSG is the value of your card is going to start to rise immediately. Just be patient with that card, hold onto it for awhile and watch what happens to the value of CSG cards, even ones without subgrades, but especially Green Label CSG cards. There are now going to be a limited number of green label cards out there, so if you have one of the very few Jordan refractors in this card, making it a low population card, the value will only go up more (all things considered equal).

I really hope my posts don't come off snooty or condescending. I'm really trying to help you out. I've been doing this for awhile and since you mentioned you're new to the game a bit I'd like to offer up as much help as I can.

The other thing you could potentially do, esp if you are looking for return on investment right now, is send the card to PSA. They just opened up their $30 tier and they say the estimated turnaround time is 120 days (although, it's PSA so take that with a boulder of salt) so if it gets an 8 there you're looking at quite a bit more $ in return in the near future. Source - thousands of individual sales over the past 20+ years

[MDBLAW]

NE1, you’re obviously experienced knowledge in this area is appreciated. I hear what you’re saying and although the value of this individual card is of little significance to me, I will hold onto it and perhaps one day sell it if the price is right. Also, I hope you’re right about CSG and the increased popularity of their cards they have graded. Right now, it seems as if the market is holding back on a full-fledged endorsement of CSG grades, or perhaps over time they will become the new standard in card and comic book grading.  I do appreciate what you have said and will take it to heart. Thanks dude!