Long wait to be disappointed!
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I sent 99 cards to CSG for grading, and only one was an express category card. The shipment was received by CSG on March 23, 2021, but they didn’t actually receive the shipment on their online progress report until May 1 2021.  As if that weren’t disappointing enough they finally graded my first card, a 1992 tops finest Michael Jordan refractor at a 7.5. I examined this card very closely, at 30x lighted magnification before sending it and had a friend who is a card grader look at it as well. We both agreed it was no worse than an 8.5 and possibly as good as a 9.5. This downgrade by CSG is costing me quite a bit of money. I hope the rest of my submissions won’t be as disappointing.

Edited by MDBLAW
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Sorry.  I hope the rest of the cards do better but my experience with the one vintage submission I did was extremely disappointing.  I think they may rely too heavily on AI for the grading process and I am just not one who is convinced the software is sensitive enough to really do the job of the human eye in interpreting flaws or irregularities. 

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3 hours ago, MDBLAW said:

I sent 99 cards to CSG for grading, and only one was an express category card. The shipment was received by CSG on March 23, 2021, but they didn’t actually receive the shipment on their online progress report until May 1 2021.  As if that weren’t disappointing enough they finally graded my first card, a 1992 tops finest Michael Jordan refractor at a 7.5. I examined this card very closely, at 30x lighted magnification before sending it and had a friend who is a card grader look at it as well. We both agreed it was no worse than an 8.5 and possibly as good as a 9.5. This downgrade by CSG is costing me quite a bit of money. I hope the rest of my submissions won’t be as disappointing.

That bites... did you get subgrades for the MJ? At least that way you'll see what you got dinged on.

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8 hours ago, mrmagoo said:

Sorry.  I hope the rest of the cards do better but my experience with the one vintage submission I did was extremely disappointing.  I think they may rely too heavily on AI for the grading process and I am just not one who is convinced the software is sensitive enough to really do the job of the human eye in interpreting flaws or irregularities. 

Thanks, so do I. I hear about all these nines and tens like it was nothing, and my card was centered with Sharp corners and a clean surface, so I was expecting at least a nine.

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The real point will be "how does a CSG 7.5 compare to PSA"? Is a CSG 7.5 really a PSA 9? Once the industry is able to compare the grades, this should all settle out. If CSG is known as the toughest grader, that should be OK as the auction prices realized should reflect that.

I have three submissions in process, so I have not experienced it for myself yet. I am hopeful that the combination of the known name CSG within the hobby, the sub-grades, and the AI all help CSG claim a seat next to BGS and PSA. But time will tell. I am confident that more and more collectors will demand subgrades tho.

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Thanks for your hopeful words, and I sincerely hope you are right about CSG‘s place in the sports card grading hierarchy. I was just a little surprised at the grade that I got on that card because a sports card grading friend of mine told me he thought it was at least an 8.5 and I was in agreement with him. We will see how it all shakes out. 

Edited by MDBLAW
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30 minutes ago, RKgant said:

The real point will be "how does a CSG 7.5 compare to PSA"? Is a CSG 7.5 really a PSA 9? Once the industry is able to compare the grades, this should all settle out. If CSG is known as the toughest grader, that should be OK as the auction prices realized should reflect that.

I have three submissions in process, so I have not experienced it for myself yet. I am hopeful that the combination of the known name CSG within the hobby, the sub-grades, and the AI all help CSG claim a seat next to BGS and PSA. But time will tell. I am confident that more and more collectors will demand subgrades tho.

I have to agree with this sentiment. The grades are tough in my experience so far and I'm good with that. The industry will catch up and level out, making some of the lower grades more valuable. Not trying to rip on PSA, but I've seen some 10's that to the naked eye should have been lower. I think sub grades are a must, especially if it's not going to your PC.

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One more thing about tough grading standards, since this has been cropping up on other forums... we should be hoping that CSG has high standards. For example: 

if PSA gives a card a 10, SGC (not CGS) will give it a 10.

if PSA gives a card a 9, SGC will give it a 10.

if PSA gives a card an 8, SGC will give it a 10.

So the community will value any SGC 10 as a PSA 8.

I don't think we want that with CSG.

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You make some good points RK, and hopefully CSG‘s grading system will prove to be of a higher standard than any of its competitors. Only time will tell and who knows how long the current sports card bubble will last?

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3 hours ago, MDBLAW said:

Thanks for your hopeful words, and I sincerely hope you are right about CSG‘s place in the sports card grading hierarchy. I was just a little surprised at the grade that I got on that card because a sports card grading friend of mine told me he thought it was at least an 8.5 and I was in agreement with him. We will see how it all shakes out. 

Do you have a pic of the card?

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The only thing that matters is ROI. And of course I have not submitted anything to SGC because regardless of the grade, they are not worth much. The market is pretty clear that a SGC 10 is only worth a PSA 7 or so, and it has more to do with the grading than the slab. If you think it is untrue or that there is an arbitrage to be had, purchase the SGC cards and flip them over the PSA for regrading.  But people are not doing that because we don't have confidence that a SGC 10 will be a 9 or 10 at PSA.

 

Hopefully CSG will prove more like PSA than SGC.

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So wait a minute... you are telling us that you had a PSA 10 and then you sent it into SGC for a re-grade? This does not seem to make sense.

Listen, no offense.  All I know is what the market prices are. SGC 10 is worth around PSA 7. If there is an arbitrage there, then more power to you if you buy SGC cards at a discount and then re-grade them at PSA, subsequently flipping them for more value. 

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RK, if you’re responding to my post, I’m wondering what you read. My post said that I sent in a not previously graded card to CSG and was disappointed with the 7.5 grade that was given to it. I was expecting and rightly so an 8.5 to 9.5 grade. That’s all I said. Nothing about SGC, PSA or BCG. 

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22 minutes ago, RKgant said:

So wait a minute... you are telling us that you had a PSA 10 and then you sent it into SGC for a re-grade? This does not seem to make sense.

Listen, no offense.  All I know is what the market prices are. SGC 10 is worth around PSA 7. If there is an arbitrage there, then more power to you if you buy SGC cards at a discount and then re-grade them at PSA, subsequently flipping them for more value. 

I grade with all the major companies and I think they all do a good job. SGC 10's are not worth PSA 7's. Please give examples of this. I will give you real examples below to show you that you need to research before making assertions. 2018 Hoops Luka Doncic #268 sells a lot. In a PSA 10 it goes for about $300 to $350 typically. PSA 9's go for $120 to $130. SGC 10's go for $180 to $220. So SGC 10's do sell for more than PSA 9's typically. Please prove me wrong and don't use one fluke example. I picked a card that hsell frequently. In fact SGC 9.5's sell for the same price as a PSA 9 for that Luka. Sometimes less, sometimes more.

Edit: Want a baseball example? Ronald Acuna 2018 Topps Chrome #193. PSA 10's are about $300, PSA 9's are $120, SGC 10's are $180 to $200. Do I need to go on? Find examples where a PSA 7 and SGC 10 are the same. 

Edited by redfoxdutchman
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11 minutes ago, MDBLAW said:

RK, if you’re responding to my post, I’m wondering what you read. My post said that I sent in a not previously graded card to CSG and was disappointed with the 7.5 grade that was given to it. I was expecting and rightly so an 8.5 to 9.5 grade. That’s all I said. Nothing about SGC, PSA or BCG. 

RK was responding to me after I called them out on their absolutely ridiculous claim that a SGC 10 was the same as a PSA 7. I would not listen to someone like this for grading advice if they don't even know current market values. If you are new to the grading scene I will tell you that sometimes you will be disappointed. Surface issues can bring down a cards grade and sometimes they are hard to spot unless you have proper lighting. A surface dent, scratches on the card, and other issues are sometimes not apparent with normal observations. Did you get subgrades on your card? If so it will give you insight for the grade. Even an experienced graded like myself gets 7's on modern cards if I missed something. There is also a possibility your card got damaged during transit or being handled by the grader. I have had cards come back with a dinged corner and it wasn't there before I sent it in. A grader could have dropped the card and there goes a few grades.

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Thanks Red, I don’t enjoy arguing with anyone about a topic as childish as card collecting or card grading. Let none of us forget that we are engaging in a kids hobby and although there can be considerable amounts of money at stake, companies like CSG are just trying to offer a service to all of us. The coming months will tell the tale of exactly who rises to the top of the card grading hierarchy. I’m betting on CSG because I believe they’re doing things in a professional and meticulous manner. Still, they have some kinks to work out of their system.

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18 minutes ago, MDBLAW said:

Thanks Red, I don’t enjoy arguing with anyone about a topic as childish as card collecting or card grading. Let none of us forget that we are engaging in a kids hobby and although there can be considerable amounts of money at stake, companies like CSG are just trying to offer a service to all of us. The coming months will tell the tale of exactly who rises to the top of the card grading hierarchy. I’m betting on CSG because I believe they’re doing things in a professional and meticulous manner. Still, they have some kinks to work out of their system.

There is room for PSA, SGC, BGS, and CSG in collecting and all do a great job IMO. You just have to be aware of their grading scales and each company tries their hardest to stay within those standards. I don't trust HGA because they don't have a rubric that shows you how they grade. The issue I have with CSG is that they tend to be very lenient with cards graded below CSG 8, but as a consumer I know that going into a purchase. Their rubric allows wear on corners much more than other grading companies, but as long as they are consistent it doesn't bother me.

The problem I have with CSG at the moment is they are not being fully transparent about how many cards they have in backlog. I personally know people that submitted over a thousand cards for bulk. People are already getting upset and they haven't even gotten into the April 1st submissions when PSA closed. CSG took on too many cards and are not prepared for this. This happened to SGC last year on a smaller scale and people are still holding a grudge against them. Unless CSG stops submissions and catches up, they will never become a trusted grader. I want them to succeed, but it may be already too late. People won't accept 1 year turnaround times for bulk when they though it was 60 days when they submitted.

Edited by redfoxdutchman
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16 minutes ago, redfoxdutchman said:

There is room for PSA, SGC, BGS, and CSG in collecting and all do a great job IMO. You just have to be aware of their grading scales and each company tries their hardest to stay within those standards. I don't trust HGA because they don't have a rubric that shows you how they grade. The issue I have with CSG is that they tend to be very lenient with cards graded below CSG 8, but as a consumer I know that going into a purchase. Their rubric allows wear on corners much more than other grading companies, but as long as they are consistent it doesn't bother me.

The problem I have with CSG at the moment is they are not being fully transparent about how many cards they have in backlog. I personally know people that submitted over a thousand cards for bulk. People are already getting upset and they haven't even gotten into the April 1st submissions when PSA closed. CSG took on too many cards and are not prepared for this. This happened to SGC last year on a smaller scale and people are still holding a grudge against them. Unless CSG stops submissions and catches up, they will never become a trusted grader. I want them to succeed, but it may be already too late. People won't accept 1 year turnaround times for bulk when they though it was 60 days when they submitted.

I disagree, since PSA had monumental submissions and an equivalent backlog, there are still diehards who are still waiting to grade with them when they reopen... that says a lot so I believe CSG can and will be a trusted grader as well despite the backlog and all that comes along with it. 

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58 minutes ago, redfoxdutchman said:

PSA has diehards and people on the registry. CSG can't afford to have the same backlogs. They don't have the same ROI and customers that used them for decades that will be patient with them. Sure there are a few CGC fanboys that will cut them slack, but that is not the majority if submitters. The majority of people who submitted with CSG did it because it was cheap and they thought they would get back their cards in a relatively quick turnaround time. I can already see the frustration on forums and twitter. People did not expect a 1 year turnaround time when they submitted at the stated 60 days bulk. 

This. Their selling point was speed. The resell isn't there, no registry, etc. With that gone, no reason to use the service. Wait as long or longer for a lower resell when you're sending them in expecting faster turnaround to compensate for lower price with volume.

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3 hours ago, redfoxdutchman said:

I grade with all the major companies and I think they all do a good job. SGC 10's are not worth PSA 7's. Please give examples of this. I will give you real examples below to show you that you need to research before making assertions. 2018 Hoops Luka Doncic #268 sells a lot. In a PSA 10 it goes for about $300 to $350 typically. PSA 9's go for $120 to $130. SGC 10's go for $180 to $220. So SGC 10's do sell for more than PSA 9's typically. Please prove me wrong and don't use one fluke example. I picked a card that hsell frequently. In fact SGC 9.5's sell for the same price as a PSA 9 for that Luka. Sometimes less, sometimes more.

Edit: Want a baseball example? Ronald Acuna 2018 Topps Chrome #193. PSA 10's are about $300, PSA 9's are $120, SGC 10's are $180 to $200. Do I need to go on? Find examples where a PSA 7 and SGC 10 are the same. 

Lets use facts with proof...

Ronald Acuna SGC 10 sold for $289 https://www.ebay.com/itm/144018658101?hash=item21882e5335:g:e4kAAOSwLEBghAzf

A PSA 10 goes for $800

The Luca went for $159 https://www.ebay.com/itm/233961924121?hash=item367937a619:g:FesAAOSwHRRgcQk~

PSA goes for $272 https://www.psacard.com/auctionprices/basketball-cards/2018-panini-hoops/luka-doncic/summary/2662841

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