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"Lower End" and Speculative Flipping is Getting Killed; Maybe CSG Can Save It
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38 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, mzdrizzle said:

Reverend, thanks for your post.  My problem is not subjectivity, but lack of consistency with PSA.  That's the issue.  But, I do agree: for now the market has spoken and PSA is #1.  

I am unsure about CSG and thAT  is why I am testing them. I submitted a couple snap outs to them. I did the same with SGC and it graded a 9 also from a BGS 9. When it is all said and done, speed of delivery matter very little if the ROI is not close, say within 80%. 
 

Grading is subjective and ALL companies make errors in their subjectivity. PSA is #1 now because the market dictated it. The shutdown by PSA WILL NOT significantly change that. They are paid at completion of subs and therefore are not losing money. If they had already charged us, yes over 600 cards In Their possession, that would be a major problem. Until the ROI changes between the various companies PSA will remain KING! I have 2 sub with CSG that arrived 2 weeks ago, but are not in the system under My subs yet! The time to completion is still out there with economy, but inputting received cards into the system is even problematic with CAG. I am making my own study of 3 companies and 1 has already been eliminated. 

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2 hours ago, mzdrizzle said:

While I don't disagree with many of the statements here, I do have to say that after being in business for over 2 decades it is very very hard to overcome the entrenched leader.  PSA graded 10's are the industry standard in terms of resale/flip pricing NOTWITHSTANDING their inconsistent standards.  I have seen so many obviously off centered PSA 10's its absurd.  It is going to take a long time for anyone to overcome them (not to mention competition from digital products now).

With that said, I am eager to receive the cards I sent into CSG back.  I am going to resell many, and keep a lot for my PC too.  To be honest, if the resale is substantially lower than PSA (and, combined with all costs, nets a lower return on investment), then what is a reasonable person supposed to do?  Keep sending them into CSG?  And, to be fair, I am going to say that I will in fact buy CSG graded cards once they start hitting the sports I invest in, like soccer and basketball.

I am hoping for the best, and I am doing my fair share at this time to support CSG.  I am up to 450 cards I have sent into them for grading, some with sub grades and many without.  Fingers crossed!  

I have never sent anyone my personal cards to be graded before because of PSA's shoddy rep. BGS IMO is a joke and the worst of them all. Honestly I was waiting for a company to get into grading that had a good rep. CSG, being under he CCG umbrella is the company I was waiting for or so it would seem. PSA isn't going anywhere but there is an opportunity for another company to step up and at the very least take a solid number 2 position and hopefully push PSA aside, or at least challenge them to clean up their act. It wont be BGS, they are a joke, SGC dropped the ball, HGA is stumbling out of the gate even though I love their labels and slabs. I am not a flip seller, I am a collector and CSG just seems like the company for me as I get older to start preserving and cataloging my collection for my kids because of that reputation. Of course this is all subject to change based on the service they provide. I just sent 70 cards in and now the wait begins.  I did not send my best because I want to see how this goes first and I have always been skiddish about sending big money cards through the mail. I am hopeful and early on it seems their customer service is on the ball, not taking more than 48 hours to answer any question I have asked which for a grading company is like a miracle. Time will tell, I am hopeful. 

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1 hour ago, The_Reverend2831694433746 said:

I am unsure about CSG and thAT  is why I am testing them. I submitted a couple snap outs to them. I did the same with SGC and it graded a 9 also from a BGS 9. When it is all said and done, speed of delivery matter very little if the ROI is not close, say within 80%. 
 

Grading is subjective and ALL companies make errors in their subjectivity. PSA is #1 now because the market dictated it. The shutdown by PSA WILL NOT significantly change that. They are paid at completion of subs and therefore are not losing money. If they had already charged us, yes over 600 cards In Their possession, that would be a major problem. Until the ROI changes between the various companies PSA will remain KING! I have 2 sub with CSG that arrived 2 weeks ago, but are not in the system under My subs yet! The time to completion is still out there with economy, but inputting received cards into the system is even problematic with CAG. I am making my own study of 3 companies and 1 has already been eliminated. 

The biggest problem with your statement is that grading is subjective. It absolutely should not be and with them it obviously is. 

PSA is either corrupt, incompetent, plays favorites or all three. Just because they were there first does not mean their position is guaranteed to stay that way. Acting like their position is permanent is just silly.

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1 minute ago, FCT4NYI said:

The biggest problem with your statement is that grading is subjective. It absolutely should not be and with them it obviously is. 

PSA is either corrupt, incompetent, plays favorites or all three. Just because they were there first does not mean their position is guaranteed to stay that way. Acting like their position is permanent is just silly.

Well I certainly do not think their position is permanent, but as of right now they are #1.  I am hopeful that CSG and others can challenge PSA and bring innovation and consistency to grading, not to mention better security on the slabs.  But again, we are talking about changing the mindset of an industry.  That takes a lot, and a long time to do.  Plus, PSA was just purchased by some pretty smart investors.  I think they are going to make some serious, positive changes, but we will not know until it actually happens.

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On 3/26/2021 at 8:39 AM, PunsRTonsOfFun said:

I can't wait for this sports card bubble to bust. Sooner the better. The problem with sports cards becoming an "alt investment" is that, eventually, it prices out those with limited financial resources. We're already seeing that with the inability to purchase cards at retail. The hobby doesn't grow when Joe Sixpack or a 12 year old kid can't buy a box or pack of cards at Walmart or Target. The hobby needs those people to grow. I'm sorry, but Wall Street and hedge fund involvement is the last thing any hobby needs. Those people destroy everything they touch.

 

3 hours ago, PunsRTonsOfFun said:

I couldn't agree with this more. If we were on reddit, I would have given this gold. It is amazing to me how many people in the hobby don't understand that PSA has the volume they do because they're the easiest and most lax of the grading companies. It's that simple. Quite frankly, it is shameful they've become the industry standard given their shoddy grading and numerous scandals.

 

7 minutes ago, mzdrizzle said:

Well I certainly do not think their position is permanent, but as of right now they are #1.  I am hopeful that CSG and others can challenge PSA and bring innovation and consistency to grading, not to mention better security on the slabs.  But again, we are talking about changing the mindset of an industry.  That takes a lot, and a long time to do.  Plus, PSA was just purchased by some pretty smart investors.  I think they are going to make some serious, positive changes, but we will not know until it actually happens.I agree PSA will evolve due to the new grading companies. The question is, if the others got the volume of cards PSA receives could they keep up? Time will tell, but I strongly doubt they will be overtaken. As long as the ROI is so different itt not hapoen. 

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35 minutes ago, mzdrizzle said:

Well I certainly do not think their position is permanent, but as of right now they are #1.  I am hopeful that CSG and others can challenge PSA and bring innovation and consistency to grading, not to mention better security on the slabs.  But again, we are talking about changing the mindset of an industry.  That takes a lot, and a long time to do.  Plus, PSA was just purchased by some pretty smart investors.  I think they are going to make some serious, positive changes, but we will not know until it actually happens.

Investors. Yes. What they actually bring to the table in the world of grading is the question. So far all we have seen is them not handle their backlog properly, send multitudes of wrong cards to people, double their prices and shut down submissions for 3+ months. I really hope they can straighten PSA out and competition is a good thing. CSG has a real opportunity here. I hope they can step into it.

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4 hours ago, The_Reverend2831694433746 said:

Grading is subjective and ALL companies make errors in their subjectivity. PSA is #1 now because the market dictated it. The shutdown by PSA WILL NOT significantly change that. They are paid at completion of subs and therefore are not losing money. If they had already charged us, yes over 600 cards In Their possession, that would be a major problem. Until the ROI changes between the various companies PSA will remain KING! I have 2 sub with CSG that arrived 2 weeks ago, but are not in the system under My subs yet! The time to completion is still out there with economy, but inputting received cards into the system is even problematic with CSG. I am making my own study of 3 companies and 1 has already been eliminated. 

You hit nail on the head. I have over 3000 cards at PSA. I knew they were so backed up, and it would take awhile for my cards to get back. SO, I just figured might as use their facility like a storage place for my cards, since they do charge us to hold them in line. I would bet if people had to pay up front for cards they sent in, it would cut down on people "floating" on grading companies. That would suck though for me personally. 

I know these are just cards, and not as important as life, but can you imagine if one of these companies were effected by a natural disaster?? Got one company in California(earthquakes/fires), CSG is right in Hurricane alley.. I shudder to think what would happen if a major hurricane was headed toward them, no way could they move everyone cards that quickly. All part of this I assume.

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I definitely agree PSA is best company for a true reseller cause they "give" out more 10's. I was gonna send more to CSG, but truthfully, I am scared to send cards that sell for over a $1000 in pSA 10 condition to CSG. Especially since I know I have pulled several GEMS out of same case already. (Granted I know, not 100% fool proof on that). But sending in a 2016 Bowman Tatis Chrome per say, that I know I have GEM'ed 10 5 at PSA, to risk getting a 9 at CSG, and lose $300-400 doesn't offset the cheaper submit fees. $300 is alot of subs... PSA 10's are so easy to sell. Not enough data yet on reselling CSG slabs, and no pop report hurts CSG right now. Time can change that.   

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On 3/25/2021 at 9:27 PM, tmoore_25 said:

I understand the desire to run in and flip your cards as quick as possible, but considering I am not a rip and flip guy, I hope they raise their prices to equal what everyone else is doing. That way it will price you guys out of the market and bring down the wait times. To be honest, I don't have to hope. You guys are going to do it yourselves. Look at what happened to SGC when they said send us your cards. BGS won't even tell you how long it takes, and PSA has my standard order that originally should have been done in 30 days since October.

You don't get to complain about how long it takes when you caused this backlog.

Bingo !

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On 3/25/2021 at 9:27 PM, tmoore_25 said:

I understand the desire to run in and flip your cards as quick as possible, but considering I am not a rip and flip guy, I hope they raise their prices to equal what everyone else is doing. That way it will price you guys out of the market and bring down the wait times. To be honest, I don't have to hope. You guys are going to do it yourselves. Look at what happened to SGC when they said send us your cards. BGS won't even tell you how long it takes, and PSA has my standard order that originally should have been done in 30 days since October.

You don't get to complain about how long it takes when you caused this backlog.

I would assume most people that grade would be selling. I don't grade my PC unless its something expensive and that's for insurance purposes. Binders, one touch cases, or anything else do the job just fine. Who would pay to have people put a number on cards to raise value if they didn't plan on liquidating them or need to know the value? I can't imagine anyone grading cards just as something to do for sh*ts and giggles.

Edited by Yeahiwasder4dat
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On 4/7/2021 at 7:27 AM, mzdrizzle said:

While I don't disagree with many of the statements here, I do have to say that after being in business for over 2 decades it is very very hard to overcome the entrenched leader.  PSA graded 10's are the industry standard in terms of resale/flip pricing NOTWITHSTANDING their inconsistent standards.  I have seen so many obviously off centered PSA 10's its absurd.  It is going to take a long time for anyone to overcome them (not to mention competition from digital products now).

With that said, I am eager to receive the cards I sent into CSG back.  I am going to resell many, and keep a lot for my PC too.  To be honest, if the resale is substantially lower than PSA (and, combined with all costs, nets a lower return on investment), then what is a reasonable person supposed to do?  Keep sending them into CSG?  And, to be fair, I am going to say that I will in fact buy CSG graded cards once they start hitting the sports I invest in, like soccer and basketball.

I am hoping for the best, and I am doing my fair share at this time to support CSG.  I am up to 450 cards I have sent into them for grading, some with sub grades and many without.  Fingers crossed!  

I agree that they are not going to overtake PSA in the near future, but I could see them overtaking BGS in the near future and forcing the two big dogs into some innovation. 

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CSG has said nothing about their capacity and output capabilities. I can only imagine how many people are currently sending cards into CSG with their huge discount on grading cost and faster turnaround times. I think they opened the doors at a crucial time, and immediately face a sink or swim situation. If they can continue to deliver on their stated turnaround times and at a significant cost decrease over the other guys, they have a huge opportunity to grab a large share of the market, and permanently. Whether or not CSG 9.5 ever overtakes or even matches PSA 10 value becomes almost irrelevant if they can deliver faster and at a fraction of the cost. They would immediately become the most attractive option for at least 50% of all the cards I need grading... But if they fail to keep an updated and realistic turnaround time and fall into the spiral that PSA and BGS find themselves in, it will be a death blow for them. We shall see, I am giving them the opportunity to swim by sending in submissions. All we can do is wait and see how it all progresses. 

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59 minutes ago, Brandon Melnick said:

CSG has said nothing about their capacity and output capabilities. I can only imagine how many people are currently sending cards into CSG with their huge discount on grading cost and faster turnaround times. I think they opened the doors at a crucial time, and immediately face a sink or swim situation. If they can continue to deliver on their stated turnaround times and at a significant cost decrease over the other guys, they have a huge opportunity to grab a large share of the market, and permanently. Whether or not CSG 9.5 ever overtakes or even matches PSA 10 value becomes almost irrelevant if they can deliver faster and at a fraction of the cost. They would immediately become the most attractive option for at least 50% of all the cards I need grading... But if they fail to keep an updated and realistic turnaround time and fall into the spiral that PSA and BGS find themselves in, it will be a death blow for them. We shall see, I am giving them the opportunity to swim by sending in submissions. All we can do is wait and see how it all progresses. 

Same here.  I have the same view and am doing the same thing. 

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