"Lower End" and Speculative Flipping is Getting Killed; Maybe CSG Can Save It 1 1

[mzdrizzle]

With the lowest prices for PSA and BGS at $20+ per card (in their +/- 9 month economy turn around time, which is ridiculous), there is no chance to buy, grade, and then quickly flip lower end or speculative cards such as, for example, a second year Donovan Mitchell silver prizm or a, let's say, 10 2017 John Collins Hoops RCs.  I am praying that the hobby will see that CSG is equally as good if not better, as it seems they have pulled all of the right levers to start.  I've sent in around 400 cards already, single grade service (no sub grades).  Time will tell how this pans out for everyone but as of right now PSA and BGS are clearly only marketing to high end cards, which I think is a huge mistake for the hobby in general (but great for PSA and BGS from a short to medium term revenue perspective).

After all, the cards I mention above, for example, could be worth quite a bit down the road, so having a reliable, trustworthy, affordable grading option for those cards is important IMO.

[B-Boy Sports Cards]

I have similar feelings to you. I focus on baseball prospects, so submitting speculative cards to PSA wasn’t happening with the cost/turnaround. I have zero issue spending $8, and waiting even longer than 3 months.

 

I have hope CSG has taken note of the volumes the other companies are reporting and can address demand better as it increases. Time will tell. 

[mzdrizzle]

Also, to be clear, I think CGS is also good for high end cards its just that they also have a more affordable option for more speculative and "lower end".  By "lower end", I simply mean cards that are priced less, but they are still good cards.

[The_Reverend283]

I feel the same. I am looking at CSG for this market for sure. These fit that market to a great degree, but 1 year wait is too much fir the price. The question is subs or no subs? Which will the market ultimately want. 

[mzdrizzle]

PSA doesn't give subs and they are #1.  Although, with their new ownership, ill bet they roll out sub grades within the next 6 to 12 months if not sooner.  Just a guess on my part.

[caff]

All options are good! I would personally like to see this be an alternative to the others who offer minimal customer support and keep jacking up prices. It will be interesting to see if their prices fall as quickly as they escalate. The market is ripe at this point for new services.

[tmoore_25]

I understand the desire to run in and flip your cards as quick as possible, but considering I am not a rip and flip guy, I hope they raise their prices to equal what everyone else is doing. That way it will price you guys out of the market and bring down the wait times. To be honest, I don't have to hope. You guys are going to do it yourselves. Look at what happened to SGC when they said send us your cards. BGS won't even tell you how long it takes, and PSA has my standard order that originally should have been done in 30 days since October.

You don't get to complain about how long it takes when you caused this backlog.

[PunsRTonsOfFun]

Duplicate post.

Edited March 26, 2021 by PunsRTonsOfFun
Duplicate post.

[PunsRTonsOfFun]

11 hours ago, tmoore_25 said:

I understand the desire to run in and flip your cards as quick as possible, but considering I am not a rip and flip guy, I hope they raise their prices to equal what everyone else is doing. That way it will price you guys out of the market and bring down the wait times. To be honest, I don't have to hope. You guys are going to do it yourselves. Look at what happened to SGC when they said send us your cards. BGS won't even tell you how long it takes, and PSA has my standard order that originally should have been done in 30 days since October.

You don't get to complain about how long it takes when you caused this backlog.

Well said...couldn't agree more. Personally, I'll be thrilled when the words "flipping" and "speculative" are out of the hobby. Between people grading base cards from the junk wax era to retail scalpers making it impossible to find cards, I don't like the current state of the hobby.

[mzdrizzle]

Do you want flipping and speculative buys out of the stock market, too?  You fail to realize that flipping and speculation is actually a significant part of the growth and growing legitimacy of the hobby as an alt investment.

[PunsRTonsOfFun]

Just now, mzdrizzle said:

Do you want flipping and speculative buys out of the stock market, too?  You fail to realize that flipping and speculation is actually a significant part of the growth and growing legitimacy of the hobby as an alt investment.

I can't wait for this sports card bubble to bust. Sooner the better. The problem with sports cards becoming an "alt investment" is that, eventually, it prices out those with limited financial resources. We're already seeing that with the inability to purchase cards at retail. The hobby doesn't grow when Joe Sixpack or a 12 year old kid can't buy a box or pack of cards at Walmart or Target. The hobby needs those people to grow. I'm sorry, but Wall Street and hedge fund involvement is the last thing any hobby needs. Those people destroy everything they touch.

[mzdrizzle]

I respect your opinion but totally disagree.  I love what is happening and hope it continues to grow.  Speculative buying and flipping is fantastic and generates significant interest.  I wish you the best!

[The_Reverend283]

I disagree to a point. The retail thoughts and the price of hobby is ridiculous. I will not have nearly the gradable collection from this year and beyond. The increased prices that the #1 grading company just completed can help that dynamic. People were willing to break retail and hobby at inflated prices if they could grade many of them cheap and see a major return. I love the hobby with all the speculation. It grows the hobby. I have been in the hobby fir a long time and grading my breaks from the past and using the money for life issues and upgrades in PC is great. NoT CSG, but grading and flipping ultra modern added 9 LeBron rookies to my collection. They were Prut hazed with graded card money. I am trying CSG to continue this process. Waiting 1 year is no longer for me since my strategy is shifting. 

[KBost33]

Why anyone would want the sports card "bubble" to burst is so ridiculous to me. It just screams "I am jealous I can't spend like everyone else, so I will cheer for the values to all go down" or "I used to like it when I had piles and piles of worthless commons" to me. I personally love how it is hard to get certain products. If they are too pricey, I pass. As far as retail, I wish we had this bubble when I was buying worthless 2010 Topps. I wish it was hard to get that product! 

[Yeahiwasder4dat]

On 3/27/2021 at 7:33 PM, The_Reverend283 said:

I disagree to a point. The retail thoughts and the price of hobby is ridiculous. I will not have nearly the gradable collection from this year and beyond. The increased prices that the #1 grading company just completed can help that dynamic. People were willing to break retail and hobby at inflated prices if they could grade many of them cheap and see a major return. I love the hobby with all the speculation. It grows the hobby. I have been in the hobby fir a long time and grading my breaks from the past and using the money for life issues and upgrades in PC is great. NoT CSG, but grading and flipping ultra modern added 9 LeBron rookies to my collection. They were Prut hazed with graded card money. I am trying CSG to continue this process. Waiting 1 year is no longer for me since my strategy is shifting. 

A lot of it also has to due with printing issues from last year and COVID. We should see some recovery in terms of being able to buy cards at retail eventually. So for collecting purposes it should put a lot of people back in the game. Hopefully it doesn't turn into a 80s-90s scenario where they print 24/7 though.

 

[FCT4NYI]

On 3/25/2021 at 8:45 PM, mzdrizzle said:

PSA doesn't give subs and they are #1.  Although, with their new ownership, ill bet they roll out sub grades within the next 6 to 12 months if not sooner.  Just a guess on my part.

PSA is #1, but they just opened the door for someone else to step into it. This is the absolute worst time for them to do this with CCG's pedigree and impeccable reputation. PSA's allure is they hand out 10's like the're nothing. I have seen hundreds of PSA 10's that have zero business being 10s. Their grading system is archaic, but why would they change to a system that would make it harder to hand out 10s like they do?

[PunsRTonsOfFun]

10 hours ago, FCT4NYI said:

PSA is #1, but they just opened the door for someone else to step into it. This is the absolute worst time for them to do this with CCG's pedigree and impeccable reputation. PSA's allure is they hand out 10's like the're nothing. I have seen hundreds of PSA 10's that have zero business being 10s. Their grading system is archaic, but why would they change to a system that would make it harder to hand out 10s like they do?

I couldn't agree with this more. If we were on reddit, I would have given this gold. It is amazing to me how many people in the hobby don't understand that PSA has the volume they do because they're the easiest and most lax of the grading companies. It's that simple. Quite frankly, it is shameful they've become the industry standard given their shoddy grading and numerous scandals.

[mzdrizzle]

While I don't disagree with many of the statements here, I do have to say that after being in business for over 2 decades it is very very hard to overcome the entrenched leader.  PSA graded 10's are the industry standard in terms of resale/flip pricing NOTWITHSTANDING their inconsistent standards.  I have seen so many obviously off centered PSA 10's its absurd.  It is going to take a long time for anyone to overcome them (not to mention competition from digital products now).

With that said, I am eager to receive the cards I sent into CSG back.  I am going to resell many, and keep a lot for my PC too.  To be honest, if the resale is substantially lower than PSA (and, combined with all costs, nets a lower return on investment), then what is a reasonable person supposed to do?  Keep sending them into CSG?  And, to be fair, I am going to say that I will in fact buy CSG graded cards once they start hitting the sports I invest in, like soccer and basketball.

I am hoping for the best, and I am doing my fair share at this time to support CSG.  I am up to 450 cards I have sent into them for grading, some with sub grades and many without.  Fingers crossed!  

Edited April 7, 2021 by mzdrizzle

[The_Reverend283]

Grading is subjective and ALL companies make errors in their subjectivity. PSA is #1 now because the market dictated it. The shutdown by PSA WILL NOT significantly change that. They are paid at completion of subs and therefore are not losing money. If they had already charged us, yes over 600 cards In Their possession, that would be a major problem. Until the ROI changes between the various companies PSA will remain KING! I have 2 sub with CSG that arrived 2 weeks ago, but are not in the system under My subs yet! The time to completion is still out there with economy, but inputting received cards into the system is even problematic with CSG. I am making my own study of 3 companies and 1 has already been eliminated. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by The_Reverend283
Error

[mzdrizzle]

Reverend, thanks for your post.  My problem is not subjectivity, but lack of consistency with PSA.  That's the issue.  But, I do agree: for now the market has spoken and PSA is #1.  

[The_Reverend283]

6 minutes ago, mzdrizzle said:

Reverend, thanks for your post.  My problem is not subjectivity, but lack of consistency with PSA.  That's the issue.  But, I do agree: for now the market has spoken and PSA is #1.  

I am unsure about CSG and thAT  is why I am testing them. I submitted a couple snap outs to them. I did the same with SGC and it graded a 9 also from a BGS 9. When it is all said and done, speed of delivery matter very little if the ROI is not close, say within 80%. 
 

Grading is subjective and ALL companies make errors in their subjectivity. PSA is #1 now because the market dictated it. The shutdown by PSA WILL NOT significantly change that. They are paid at completion of subs and therefore are not losing money. If they had already charged us, yes over 600 cards In Their possession, that would be a major problem. Until the ROI changes between the various companies PSA will remain KING! I have 2 sub with CSG that arrived 2 weeks ago, but are not in the system under My subs yet! The time to completion is still out there with economy, but inputting received cards into the system is even problematic with CAG. I am making my own study of 3 companies and 1 has already been eliminated. 

[FCT4NYI]

2 hours ago, mzdrizzle said:

While I don't disagree with many of the statements here, I do have to say that after being in business for over 2 decades it is very very hard to overcome the entrenched leader.  PSA graded 10's are the industry standard in terms of resale/flip pricing NOTWITHSTANDING their inconsistent standards.  I have seen so many obviously off centered PSA 10's its absurd.  It is going to take a long time for anyone to overcome them (not to mention competition from digital products now).

With that said, I am eager to receive the cards I sent into CSG back.  I am going to resell many, and keep a lot for my PC too.  To be honest, if the resale is substantially lower than PSA (and, combined with all costs, nets a lower return on investment), then what is a reasonable person supposed to do?  Keep sending them into CSG?  And, to be fair, I am going to say that I will in fact buy CSG graded cards once they start hitting the sports I invest in, like soccer and basketball.

I am hoping for the best, and I am doing my fair share at this time to support CSG.  I am up to 450 cards I have sent into them for grading, some with sub grades and many without.  Fingers crossed!  

I have never sent anyone my personal cards to be graded before because of PSA's shoddy rep. BGS IMO is a joke and the worst of them all. Honestly I was waiting for a company to get into grading that had a good rep. CSG, being under he CCG umbrella is the company I was waiting for or so it would seem. PSA isn't going anywhere but there is an opportunity for another company to step up and at the very least take a solid number 2 position and hopefully push PSA aside, or at least challenge them to clean up their act. It wont be BGS, they are a joke, SGC dropped the ball, HGA is stumbling out of the gate even though I love their labels and slabs. I am not a flip seller, I am a collector and CSG just seems like the company for me as I get older to start preserving and cataloging my collection for my kids because of that reputation. Of course this is all subject to change based on the service they provide. I just sent 70 cards in and now the wait begins.  I did not send my best because I want to see how this goes first and I have always been skiddish about sending big money cards through the mail. I am hopeful and early on it seems their customer service is on the ball, not taking more than 48 hours to answer any question I have asked which for a grading company is like a miracle. Time will tell, I am hopeful. 

[FCT4NYI]

2 hours ago, mzdrizzle said:

Reverend, thanks for your post.  My problem is not subjectivity, but lack of consistency with PSA.  That's the issue.  But, I do agree: for now the market has spoken and PSA is #1.  

For now.

[FCT4NYI]

1 hour ago, The_Reverend283 said:

I am unsure about CSG and thAT  is why I am testing them. I submitted a couple snap outs to them. I did the same with SGC and it graded a 9 also from a BGS 9. When it is all said and done, speed of delivery matter very little if the ROI is not close, say within 80%. 
 

Grading is subjective and ALL companies make errors in their subjectivity. PSA is #1 now because the market dictated it. The shutdown by PSA WILL NOT significantly change that. They are paid at completion of subs and therefore are not losing money. If they had already charged us, yes over 600 cards In Their possession, that would be a major problem. Until the ROI changes between the various companies PSA will remain KING! I have 2 sub with CSG that arrived 2 weeks ago, but are not in the system under My subs yet! The time to completion is still out there with economy, but inputting received cards into the system is even problematic with CAG. I am making my own study of 3 companies and 1 has already been eliminated. 

The biggest problem with your statement is that grading is subjective. It absolutely should not be and with them it obviously is. 

PSA is either corrupt, incompetent, plays favorites or all three. Just because they were there first does not mean their position is guaranteed to stay that way. Acting like their position is permanent is just silly.

[mzdrizzle]

1 minute ago, FCT4NYI said:

The biggest problem with your statement is that grading is subjective. It absolutely should not be and with them it obviously is. 

PSA is either corrupt, incompetent, plays favorites or all three. Just because they were there first does not mean their position is guaranteed to stay that way. Acting like their position is permanent is just silly.

Well I certainly do not think their position is permanent, but as of right now they are #1.  I am hopeful that CSG and others can challenge PSA and bring innovation and consistency to grading, not to mention better security on the slabs.  But again, we are talking about changing the mindset of an industry.  That takes a lot, and a long time to do.  Plus, PSA was just purchased by some pretty smart investors.  I think they are going to make some serious, positive changes, but we will not know until it actually happens.