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Why is everyone's response to PSA shutdown an increase in prices?
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27 posts in this topic

This is crazy, and I know I am not alone here, but hear me out. 

I was a faithful SGC submitter, and when I started they were $8 per card in a submission group bulk rate.

PSA was having turnaround time problems for over a year and SGC decided to up its game, hire more graders and improve turnaround times. They did, until the grading part of the hobby exploded to all-time high levels, exceeding the JUnk Era levels. SGC had egg on their face after bragging in their marketing about their turnaround times, while at same time poking fun at PSA. 

And they upped their bulk rates to $15 a card. That was fine. It was doable. But then it went to $20 per card for no reason. Then PSA shut down and it went to $75 per card or $35 for bulk rates. 

So, I decided to give CSG a shot. I was about to join at the second-tier level when I noticed the April 21 message that because they are seeing an influx of new submissions they, too, are increasing their prices. Mind you, this company is barely out of the box and its reputation is still to be determined. And the bright green labels ...

But for $8 per card bulk, I was ready to give it a solid shot and give them a full year. But the price is now $12 a card. And CSG isn't exactly bringing top 3 resale prices. I am not even sure they are above GMA. 

This is no knock on CSG; I have no experience with this company. But why is the response to increase fees? Because you hired more graders? Did you really?

If you are getting so many more cards, then that additional revenue and profit should be enough to hire more graders, right? Why are these grading companies alienating the small guys? 

If you're worried about adding to your turnaround times (they aren't great for bulk rates) well, this huge influx you mention means how many times are you increasing your profit margins? You had money to hire more graders. Increasing prices might make sense if you reduced the 4 month plus turnaround times for bulk. But you didn't. It's the same service, not guaranteed to get worse, with a 66% price increase. 66%! 

Does it make sense to send 100 mid-level cards at $12 a pop, or even worse, $20 a pop, when they are unlikely to bring in $30?

This is frustrating to watch. And I doubt I am going to sign up to your $149 plan. Good luck ya'll. 

Edited by QueenCityCards
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10 hours ago, QueenCityCards said:

This is crazy, and I know I am not alone here, but hear me out. 

I was a faithful SGC submitter, and when I started they were $8 per card in a submission group bulk rate.

PSA was having turnaround time problems for over a year and SGC decided to up its game, hire more graders and improve turnaround times. They did, until the grading part of the hobby exploded to all-time high levels, exceeding the JUnk Era levels. SGC had egg on their face after bragging in their marketing about their turnaround times, while at same time poking fun at PSA. 

And they upped their bulk rates to $15 a card. That was fine. It was doable. But then it went to $20 per card for no reason. Then PSA shut down and it went to $75 per card or $35 for bulk rates. 

So, I decided to give CSG a shot. I was about to join at the second-tier level when I noticed the April 21 message that because they are seeing an influx of new submissions they, too, are increasing their prices. Mind you, this company is barely out of the box and its reputation is still to be determined. And the bright green labels ...

But for $8 per card bulk, I was ready to give it a solid shot and give them a full year. But the price is now $12 a card. And CSG isn't exactly bringing top 3 resale prices. I am not even sure they are above GMA. 

This is no knock on CSG; I have no experience with this company. But why is the response to increase fees? Because you hired more graders? Did you really?

If you are getting so many more cards, then that additional revenue and profit should be enough to hire more graders, right? Why are these grading companies alienating the small guys? 

If you're worried about adding to your turnaround times (they aren't great for bulk rates) well, this huge influx you mention means how many times are you increasing your profit margins? You had money to hire more graders. Increasing prices might make sense if you reduced the 4 month plus turnaround times for bulk. But you didn't. It's the same service, not guaranteed to get worse, with a 66% price increase. 66%! 

Does it make sense to send 100 mid-level cards at $12 a pop, or even worse, $20 a pop, when they are unlikely to bring in $30?

This is frustrating to watch. And I doubt I am going to sign up to your $149 plan. Good luck ya'll. 

Salient points! You are not wrong.

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10 hours ago, QueenCityCards said:

This is crazy, and I know I am not alone here, but hear me out. 

I was a faithful SGC submitter, and when I started they were $8 per card in a submission group bulk rate.

PSA was having turnaround time problems for over a year and SGC decided to up its game, hire more graders and improve turnaround times. They did, until the grading part of the hobby exploded to all-time high levels, exceeding the JUnk Era levels. SGC had egg on their face after bragging in their marketing about their turnaround times, while at same time poking fun at PSA. 

And they upped their bulk rates to $15 a card. That was fine. It was doable. But then it went to $20 per card for no reason. Then PSA shut down and it went to $75 per card or $35 for bulk rates. 

So, I decided to give CSG a shot. I was about to join at the second-tier level when I noticed the April 21 message that because they are seeing an influx of new submissions they, too, are increasing their prices. Mind you, this company is barely out of the box and its reputation is still to be determined. And the bright green labels ...

But for $8 per card bulk, I was ready to give it a solid shot and give them a full year. But the price is now $12 a card. And CSG isn't exactly bringing top 3 resale prices. I am not even sure they are above GMA. 

This is no knock on CSG; I have no experience with this company. But why is the response to increase fees? Because you hired more graders? Did you really?

If you are getting so many more cards, then that additional revenue and profit should be enough to hire more graders, right? Why are these grading companies alienating the small guys? 

If you're worried about adding to your turnaround times (they aren't great for bulk rates) well, this huge influx you mention means how many times are you increasing your profit margins? You had money to hire more graders. Increasing prices might make sense if you reduced the 4 month plus turnaround times for bulk. But you didn't. It's the same service, not guaranteed to get worse, with a 66% price increase. 66%! 

Does it make sense to send 100 mid-level cards at $12 a pop, or even worse, $20 a pop, when they are unlikely to bring in $30?

This is frustrating to watch. And I doubt I am going to sign up to your $149 plan. Good luck ya'll. 

I guess because people are gonna pay it.  If I had a service, that was in high demand, and I knew I could make more just by increasing the cost, it would be game. Even though you aren't gonna sign up, they are still gonna get many more that will.  Truthfully, they don't care about you, the others that aren't gonna sign up. That is cold hard facts. It is what it is. 

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They're just trying to run a business. 

Old pricing scheme plus market dynamics got them way backlogged, so they staff up/expand as much as they can and raise the prices a little bit.  If things continue the way that they've been going, they will likely raise prices again in a few months.  Then the market cools down, or when they streamline their processes enough that they can outpace demand, then they'd likely lower prices.

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13 hours ago, QueenCityCards said:

This is crazy, and I know I am not alone here, but hear me out. 

I was a faithful SGC submitter, and when I started they were $8 per card in a submission group bulk rate.

PSA was having turnaround time problems for over a year and SGC decided to up its game, hire more graders and improve turnaround times. They did, until the grading part of the hobby exploded to all-time high levels, exceeding the JUnk Era levels. SGC had egg on their face after bragging in their marketing about their turnaround times, while at same time poking fun at PSA. 

And they upped their bulk rates to $15 a card. That was fine. It was doable. But then it went to $20 per card for no reason. Then PSA shut down and it went to $75 per card or $35 for bulk rates. 

So, I decided to give CSG a shot. I was about to join at the second-tier level when I noticed the April 21 message that because they are seeing an influx of new submissions they, too, are increasing their prices. Mind you, this company is barely out of the box and its reputation is still to be determined. And the bright green labels ...

But for $8 per card bulk, I was ready to give it a solid shot and give them a full year. But the price is now $12 a card. And CSG isn't exactly bringing top 3 resale prices. I am not even sure they are above GMA. 

This is no knock on CSG; I have no experience with this company. But why is the response to increase fees? Because you hired more graders? Did you really?

If you are getting so many more cards, then that additional revenue and profit should be enough to hire more graders, right? Why are these grading companies alienating the small guys? 

If you're worried about adding to your turnaround times (they aren't great for bulk rates) well, this huge influx you mention means how many times are you increasing your profit margins? You had money to hire more graders. Increasing prices might make sense if you reduced the 4 month plus turnaround times for bulk. But you didn't. It's the same service, not guaranteed to get worse, with a 66% price increase. 66%! 

Does it make sense to send 100 mid-level cards at $12 a pop, or even worse, $20 a pop, when they are unlikely to bring in $30?

This is frustrating to watch. And I doubt I am going to sign up to your $149 plan. Good luck ya'll. 

CSG’s parent company is reputable in the grading industry. Although CSG is a new brand but the company has better resource compares to SGC. The resale price is clearly above SGC right now. According to my experience, I never see above $10k or even $5k card in a SGC case. But there are already several in CSG including LBJ’s rookie. Not even talk about GMA, most people treat GMA 10 cards as raw cards. I don’t like their decision of raising price, but it is a simple supply demand problem.

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2 hours ago, pqd1991 said:

CSG’s parent company is reputable in the grading industry. Although CSG is a new brand but the company has better resource compares to SGC. The resale price is clearly above SGC right now. According to my experience, I never see above $10k or even $5k card in a SGC case. But there are already several in CSG including LBJ’s rookie. Not even talk about GMA, most people treat GMA 10 cards as raw cards. I don’t like their decision of raising price, but it is a simple supply demand problem.

Good points. I expressed my prized LBJ rookie and was glad I did!

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20 hours ago, ModernChris said:

They're just trying to run a business. 

Old pricing scheme plus market dynamics got them way backlogged, so they staff up/expand as much as they can and raise the prices a little bit.  If things continue the way that they've been going, they will likely raise prices again in a few months.  Then the market cools down, or when they streamline their processes enough that they can outpace demand, then they'd likely lower prices.

"They'd likely lower prices when they streamline their process"? Doubtful. Esp if they feel the need to raise prices when they arent hitting turnarounds (by a good amount). Has PSA or Beckett lowered prices as they streamlined?

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18 hours ago, pqd1991 said:

CSG’s parent company is reputable in the grading industry. Although CSG is a new brand but the company has better resource compares to SGC. The resale price is clearly above SGC right now. According to my experience, I never see above $10k or even $5k card in a SGC case. But there are already several in CSG including LBJ’s rookie. Not even talk about GMA, most people treat GMA 10 cards as raw cards. I don’t like their decision of raising price, but it is a simple supply demand problem.

I would hope they caught up on entering subs and had some consistent ROI from their slabs before they started raising prices. They have only been grading cards since February, 2 MONTHS. They are brutally behind and losing ground by the day it seems on entering subs.  With turnaround times already being raised, they are now raiding prices. More pay for slower work. I am not sure how I am supposed to be impressed. With inconsistent ROI, this isnt a great start for only 2 months in.

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57 minutes ago, The Break Brothers said:

"They'd likely lower prices when they streamline their process"? Doubtful. Esp if they feel the need to raise prices when they arent hitting turnarounds (by a good amount). Has PSA or Beckett lowered prices as they streamlined?

Yes, you're 100% right. 

Let me clarify, they'd likely lower their prices when they streamline their processes (or when the market cools offs) enough to clear the backlog.  Clearly none of these companies would lower their prices when they cannot keep up with orders.  But if this bubble bursts, and they get their backlog down to a couple weeks, then they'd probably lower their prices.

My point really was just that they would be foolish to not raise their prices right now, because all signs point to them being months behind already.  And they'll likely do it again, unless the market cools off.

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I don't think anyone should get so upset over the price increase or take it personally in any way. Price is a way to control demand. Right now they are getting slammed with submissions and they don't have the time, personnel or facilities to control the surge. The only way they can do anything about this issue is raising prices. CSG doesn't want you to submit right now because you are going to get wait times that you aren't going to be happy with. If demand cools down and they can get a better handle on what is required to enter the space, the prices will stabilize. Whether that means price up or price down depends on how much they have to get through. My advice is this, if you can stomach a very long wait time and higher prices, then by all means submit now. However, if you can wait and let these grading companies catch up, you'll likely have shorter wait times and a better overall experience. 

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4 hours ago, The Break Brothers said:

I would hope they caught up on entering subs and had some consistent ROI from their slabs before they started raising prices. They have only been grading cards since February, 2 MONTHS. They are brutally behind and losing ground by the day it seems on entering subs.  With turnaround times already being raised, they are now raiding prices. More pay for slower work. I am not sure how I am supposed to be impressed. With inconsistent ROI, this isnt a great start for only 2 months in.

This is simple supply and demand. If they can only grade 1,000 cards a day but are getting submissions for 3,000 cards, you have to raise prices to both enable expansion and to try and prevent a huge backlog. They had no way of knowing that they would be in a position to be basically the only choice for 80% of the entire market within 2 months of opening the doors. I feel like they are not doing enough to try and grow faster and limit a huge backlog. I would have raised prices significantly more. Allowing a super focused approach on keeping return times as low as possible, and quality high, similar to SGC, but not to their extreme. A $25 bulk cost would do that, also allowing them to put all the extra profit into growth, perhaps allowing them to drop prices back to a fractionally lower rate than PSA when / if they ever open back up value submissions. Because when / if PSA ever opens they will be at $40-50 for value, almost guaranteed. The only way CSG keeps its current market share or even close to current levels is if they can move as fast or faster than PSA at a fraction of the cost. 

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So I just got wind of my PSA order from February.  Brady RC got a 6, but my Metal Universe Kobe got a 9.  So now the question is, did I up by sending my Metal Universe Jordan's to CSG instead of PSA....>Time will tell.

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44 minutes ago, FAdmiral said:

I don't think anyone should get so upset over the price increase or take it personally in any way. Price is a way to control demand. Right now they are getting slammed with submissions and they don't have the time, personnel or facilities to control the surge. The only way they can do anything about this issue is raising prices. CSG doesn't want you to submit right now because you are going to get wait times that you aren't going to be happy with. If demand cools down and they can get a better handle on what is required to enter the space, the prices will stabilize. Whether that means price up or price down depends on how much they have to get through. My advice is this, if you can stomach a very long wait time and higher prices, then by all means submit now. However, if you can wait and let these grading companies catch up, you'll likely have shorter wait times and a better overall experience. 

I agree here. At some point ppl trying to get $1 cards graded/slabbed should just spend $8 on a nice frame. lol

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2 hours ago, FAdmiral said:

I don't think anyone should get so upset over the price increase or take it personally in any way. Price is a way to control demand. Right now they are getting slammed with submissions and they don't have the time, personnel or facilities to control the surge. The only way they can do anything about this issue is raising prices. CSG doesn't want you to submit right now because you are going to get wait times that you aren't going to be happy with. If demand cools down and they can get a better handle on what is required to enter the space, the prices will stabilize. Whether that means price up or price down depends on how much they have to get through. My advice is this, if you can stomach a very long wait time and higher prices, then by all means submit now. However, if you can wait and let these grading companies catch up, you'll likely have shorter wait times and a better overall experience. 

Obviously not taken personally. But every grader is behind. But, if youre turnaround sucks and you raise prices to PSA levels, without their pedigree, it seems like a foolish move two months in.  Why not rise it to $100 card to stunt submissions.  That mentality hasnt proven effective yet, or slowed subs.  PSA raised prices and had to shutdown.  CSG isn't ignorant of the market they decided to enter. They knew that PSA and Beckett were swamped, and they would be likely too. They didnt preapre, and set prices and expectations they could never meet, so now raising prices. I am starting to appreciate HGA and their answer. Limit amount of subs, prices low, and turnaround times met.  I just sent off a Trout Auto RC refractor today, with 10-day turnaround.  I'm curious to how both my CSG and HGA subs do, and their respective turnarounds. The 10-day with HGA was exactly as much as CSG, with 25-day with auto and subs.  I really hope CSG is a solution to PSA and Beckett, but I'm not seeing it so far, including on ROI consistently.

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As a collector, the price of grading going up obviously stinks.  Many collectors had cards queued up to grade that now might not be economical to grade.

However, the grading companies have two options right now to avoid drowning in submissions:

(1) Shut down submissions, except for the higest price categories like PSA.  With $300 as the lowest submission price (as of 4-28-2021), they are skimming the market for high-margin submissions and working off their backlog.  I submitted to one of PSA's quarterly specials back in September, and I do not expect to get my cards back until September 2021.

(2) Raising proces across-the-board like SGC, Beckett, and CSG.  This move will reduce volume and raise margins.

While all businesses want volume (it's great when people love your product or service), volume becomes dysfunctional when you cannot handle it as a seller.  Look at the other messages on this board, CSG seems to be struggling with the volume of submissions in terms of tracking, unpacking and other aspects of customer service.  Raising submissions helps because not only does it reduce the volume of submissions, but CSG with the higher margins can also hire some temporary help in packing/unpacking and work on expanding grading capacity.  As somebody who is trying CSG as an alternative to PSA, $12 per bulk submission at $250 value limit seems pretty reasonable right now.  I liked $8 better. ;)

Even if you (or I) do not become a CSG regular customer, we need to hope that they are successful in this market.  The relative capacity constraints in the industry stem from card grading having only three major players (PSA, Beckett & SGC) and the new firm entering, CSG.  It's basic economics that an Oligopoly is going to have higher than competitive prices, especially in times of high demand.  More options will create competition for your buisness and lower prices, eventually.

Edited by Wolverinejayhawks
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How many unemployed experienced card graders are there?  There are four relatively big players all trying to increase staff to meet demand.  I can't imagine there are enough people to step and and start grading cards at every company.  I don't want my cards graded by someone that they hired with no experience and trained for a week or even a month.  I do think PSA, CSG, BGS and SGC could have done a better job of forecasting the demand and did things they seem to be doing now several months ago like adding additional facilities and increasing the less specialized staff like customer service and shipping and receiving.  

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6 hours ago, Wolverinejayhawks said:

As a collector, the price of grading going up obviously stinks.  Many collectors had cards queued up to grade that now might not be economical to grade.

However, the grading companies have two options right now to avoid drowning in submissions:

(1) Shut down submissions, except for the higest price categories like PSA.  With $300 as the lowest submission price (as of 4-28-2021), they are skimming the market for high-margin submissions and working off their backlog.  I submitted to one of PSA's quarterly specials back in September, and I do not expect to get my cards back until September 2021.

(2) Raising proces across-the-board like SGC, Beckett, and CSG.  This move will reduce volume and raise margins.

While all businesses want volume (it's great when people love your product or service), volume becomes dysfunctional when you cannot handle it as a seller.  Look at the other messages on this board, CSG seems to be struggling with the volume of submissions in terms of tracking, unpacking and other aspects of customer service.  Raising submissions helps because not only does it reduce the volume of submissions, but CSG with the higher margins can also hire some temporary help in packing/unpacking and work on expanding grading capacity.  As somebody who is trying CSG as an alternative to PSA, $12 per bulk submission at $250 value limit seems pretty reasonable right now.  I liked $8 better. ;)

Even if you (or I) do not become a CSG regular customer, we need to hope that they are successful in this market.  The relative capacity constraints in the industry stem from card grading having only three major players (PSA, Beckett & SGC) and the new firm entering, CSG.  It's basic economics that an Oligopoly is going to have higher than competitive prices, especially in times of high demand.  More options will create competition for your buisness and lower prices, eventually.

$12? Where is it $12? And they want $10 per card for subgrades. It's insane

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