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Thoughts on CSG vs. PSA
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17 posts in this topic

I have been a big fan of CSG for well over year now.  The vast majority of my cards have been slabbed by CSG.  I love the holders but they are impossible to move right now, at least in my experience; far less so with PSA slabbed cards.  I have also noticed that the CSG grading numbers for sports cards have been falling month by month.  It seems like fewer people are grading with CSG on the sports cards side of things.  I am not ready to bail on CSG, but l'm wondering what people think CSG could do differently or better to improve their numbers relating to the number of cards graded, resale, etc.?  Last month, for example, SGC graded over two times as many cards as CSG.  PSA graded over 1 million cards.  Maybe the point is a moot one, but I feel like CSG could be doing more innovating as it relates to getting more customers grading with them for sports cards.  Thanks for making time to respond - I am genuinely interested in what people think about this topic.  Like I said, I am in this for the long haul but I also need to be able to move cards from my inventory and in order to do that I need CSG to market their services in a way that gets them more out front.  

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On 1/5/2023 at 7:23 AM, Leiataua Dr. Jon said:

I have been a big fan of CSG for well over year now.  The vast majority of my cards have been slabbed by CSG.  I love the holders but they are impossible to move right now, at least in my experience; far less so with PSA slabbed cards.  I have also noticed that the CSG grading numbers for sports cards have been falling month by month.  It seems like fewer people are grading with CSG on the sports cards side of things.  I am not ready to bail on CSG, but l'm wondering what people think CSG could do differently or better to improve their numbers relating to the number of cards graded, resale, etc.?  Last month, for example, SGC graded over two times as many cards as CSG.  PSA graded over 1 million cards.  Maybe the point is a moot one, but I feel like CSG could be doing more innovating as it relates to getting more customers grading with them for sports cards.  Thanks for making time to respond - I am genuinely interested in what people think about this topic.  Like I said, I am in this for the long haul but I also need to be able to move cards from my inventory and in order to do that I need CSG to market their services in a way that gets them more out front.  

sgc had a $9 deal with for bowman chromes so they had a good month, psa not sure how accurate their numbers are they have a backlog, tons of resubs and like everything with psa its a bit convaluded. they been around over 20 years, csg has a big hill to climb majority of the major collectors before 2020 have huge collections in psa slabs..a lot of people in the hobby have a ton of stock in psa they dont wanna see that drop and lots of the hobby just conforms and dont think for themselves. Overall the market is in a dip nothing seems to be moving very fast, but i think csg is slowly building legitamacy n trust in the hobby its just gonna take time. Its impressive csg is in the big 4 conversation and competes with sgc, bgs n psa and they only been open little over a year. If they can do that in a year i think in 5 years they are gonna be a real force in the hobby, Csg is building a solid following of pc collectors and becoming more trusted overall I just sold a Lebron topps rc csg8, trout rc bowman chrome csg 9 and a 87 jordan csg 7 and got slightly under psa comps 10-$20 under psa comps n sold in less then 2weeks not bad, i think more people are buying csg even if they crack em they trust they are getting a fair graded sharp card just gonna take some time n a few power moves by csg to stay competitive, good luck! 

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On 1/5/2023 at 10:37 AM, micky 8 said:

sgc had a $9 deal with for bowman chromes so they had a good month, psa not sure how accurate their numbers are they have a backlog, tons of resubs and like everything with psa its a bit convaluded. they been around over 20 years, csg has a big hill to climb majority of the major collectors before 2020 have huge collections in psa slabs..a lot of people in the hobby have a ton of stock in psa they dont wanna see that drop and lots of the hobby just conforms and dont think for themselves. Overall the market is in a dip nothing seems to be moving very fast, but i think csg is slowly building legitamacy n trust in the hobby its just gonna take time. Its impressive csg is in the big 4 conversation and competes with sgc, bgs n psa and they only been open little over a year. If they can do that in a year i think in 5 years they are gonna be a real force in the hobby, Csg is building a solid following of pc collectors and becoming more trusted overall I just sold a Lebron topps rc csg8, trout rc bowman chrome csg 9 and a 87 jordan csg 7 and got slightly under psa comps 10-$20 under psa comps n sold in less then 2weeks not bad, i think more people are buying csg even if they crack em they trust they are getting a fair graded sharp card just gonna take some time n a few power moves by csg to stay competitive, good luck! 

Great points Micky 8!  I agree with nearly everything you mentioned.  I guess I have to be patient.  I have sold some CSG slabbed cards for just under comp's as well...it's just going to take some patience and time.  Still, I'd like to see CSG ramp up their discount and really try to undercut SGC and BGS.  In terms of PSA, everything you said I agree with!  Thanks for responding brother!

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On 1/5/2023 at 12:24 PM, Leiataua Dr. Jon said:

Great points Micky 8!  I agree with nearly everything you mentioned.  I guess I have to be patient.  I have sold some CSG slabbed cards for just under comp's as well...it's just going to take some patience and time.  Still, I'd like to see CSG ramp up their discount and really try to undercut SGC and BGS.  In terms of PSA, everything you said I agree with!  Thanks for responding brother!

agree its important for csg to stay proactive in the price war but pricing is a slippery slope you dont want to low ball your services too much or ya'll just be pigeon holed as the cheap grader the hobby dont take seriously with a ton of cheap slabs flooding the market but csg needs to keep it interesting n keep innovating for the customer, they dont have to bury psa like blockbuster to win, they just gotta be consistent over the years so csg slabs can get the same kind of premium as psa does 

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For what its worth I'm a fan of CSG's services and hope that they end up deciding to keep a low submission cost so that non commercial hobbyist collectors like myself can continue to grow their collections without breaking the bank.  Don't forget that CSG still has a whole other community to tap into with regards to non-sports trading cards.  Whether they decide to finally start grading non-sport under the CSG logo (which as a collector I hope is the case for uniformity in my PC) or expand CCG's offerings, I believe they would do well in this market.  I know there have been several requests posted on these forums for CSG to start expanding in this area to compete against PSA and SGC. As has been mentioned, I find the CSG holders and the grading consistency of the orders I have submitted my biggest factor in continuing to use CSG's services. I have submitted to all of the major grading agencies and I find CSG the most reliable when it comes to the grades I expected the cards to receive (while finding PSA the absolute worst). I submit mostly for PC purposes and the occasional cards I put up for sale are strictly ones that have been replaced by higher graded versions so the ending sale price doesn't concern me too much but as an investor I can see the concern some of you have expressed when comparing CSG sell comps to PSA sell comps.  I agree with Micky 8 though in stating that too many collectors have been drinking the PSA Kool Aid and I know several that have been badly burned by what I feel is rushed through grading spending money to only then crack out the ridiculous low balled cards they receive back from PSA.

In the end I don't think CSG is going anywhere but up.  They are large enough to compete, have been in the collectibles grading industry long enough to know how to survive and I believe will retain enough of a collector base to continue to provide service and expand.

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On 1/5/2023 at 12:12 PM, TwoYewts said:

For what its worth I'm a fan of CSG's services and hope that they end up deciding to keep a low submission cost so that non commercial hobbyist collectors like myself can continue to grow their collections without breaking the bank.  Don't forget that CSG still has a whole other community to tap into with regards to non-sports trading cards.  Whether they decide to finally start grading non-sport under the CSG logo (which as a collector I hope is the case for uniformity in my PC) or expand CCG's offerings, I believe they would do well in this market.  I know there have been several requests posted on these forums for CSG to start expanding in this area to compete against PSA and SGC. As has been mentioned, I find the CSG holders and the grading consistency of the orders I have submitted my biggest factor in continuing to use CSG's services. I have submitted to all of the major grading agencies and I find CSG the most reliable when it comes to the grades I expected the cards to receive (while finding PSA the absolute worst). I submit mostly for PC purposes and the occasional cards I put up for sale are strictly ones that have been replaced by higher graded versions so the ending sale price doesn't concern me too much but as an investor I can see the concern some of you have expressed when comparing CSG sell comps to PSA sell comps.  I agree with Micky 8 though in stating that too many collectors have been drinking the PSA Kool Aid and I know several that have been badly burned by what I feel is rushed through grading spending money to only then crack out the ridiculous low balled cards they receive back from PSA.

In the end I don't think CSG is going anywhere but up.  They are large enough to compete, have been in the collectibles grading industry long enough to know how to survive and I believe will retain enough of a collector base to continue to provide service and expand.

I agree with just about everything you said...thanks!  What do you think the best price point would be for CSG to cost out their grading services for bulk?

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On 1/6/2023 at 6:53 AM, Leiataua Dr. Jon said:

I agree with just about everything you said...thanks!  What do you think the best price point would be for CSG to cost out their grading services for bulk?

Good question.  As a hobbyist collector who sends in cards primarily for preservation/authentication in order to be able to complete and showcase sets with a uniform look, I believe any price point within the $10 - $15 range for cards valued under $250 is reasonable. It fills the void that was left by PSA once they removed their low price point for subscriber bulk orders and grading specials.  As a vintage collector, I have several sets that I would love to send in to have encapsulated.  As we all know, many cards within a set do not carry the value of the more sought after cards and therefore I can't justify paying over $15 for common cards just to complete a graded set. At the current price point that CSG offers for bulk, a collector like myself can send in a set and not break the bank to encapsulate in order to add it to their PC.  I don't know how feasible that price range would be for CSG to permanently maintain with the cost of materials on the rise; but, even just offering "Grading Specials" as they are currently offering is a welcome opportunity for me to send in another set or two to be graded.

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SGC is kind of a waste of time to submit to.

I would say that CSG's grading standards may be the best, and they might have the second best (after BGS) holders for protecting the encased card. That said, PSA's registry is far more complete than CSG's. That increases the demand for PSA graded cards. This is reflected in most CU brands vs CCG brands. This leads to higher market demand for CU cards, artificially. However, I think CSG does grade better than PSA, even though I feel PCGS grades better than NGC, so it's not exactly universal.

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On 1/8/2023 at 5:00 PM, northkorea said:

SGC is kind of a waste of time to submit to.

I would say that CSG's grading standards may be the best, and they might have the second best (after BGS) holders for protecting the encased card. That said, PSA's registry is far more complete than CSG's. That increases the demand for PSA graded cards. This is reflected in most CU brands vs CCG brands. This leads to higher market demand for CU cards, artificially. However, I think CSG does grade better than PSA, even though I feel PCGS grades better than NGC, so it's not exactly universal.

You make great points, all.  How do you think CSG is doing with marketing their grading services?  

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Couple of thoughts, this is something I have thinking about as well.  I have a 50 card sub that is sitting on my desk.  I have been flopping back in forth on where to send these - SGC or CSG.  

For PSA, let's be real nobody is catching up to them anytime soon and that's ok.  SGC and CSG (even BGS) need to think about who wants to be in that strong number tow slot.  PSA is still doing 1 million cards a month and their backlog has been cleared for what 3-4 months now.  The "hidden" backlog of those waiting to submit might start to ebb though.

As far as my decision between SGC and CSG, this is how I see them now.

SGC - better graders, holder needs updating, tux looks great for vintage less so for chrome/prism, needs a registry, great service, auto grades don't look as good

CSG - great holders, registry is ok but getting better, took a step back with the changing grading standards, did improve label greatly, grades vintage poorly, upcharging for autos and thick cards is a turn off.

My two biggest fears with CSG and holding me back from going all in are the fact they grade vintage more like BVG than SGC/PSA, this means they won't be taken seriously in the long run for vintage, and the other mentioned - they will find their niche as the "cheap" grader (even if that perception is wrong in reality).

As mentioned, I would also like to see them jump into more non-sports - hopefully in the CSG holder, but I would guess they would go into a CGC holder.  That would pull me away from CSG if that were to be the case.  I don't want them to go down the Beckett route and have a rainbow of colors on their flips and services.  I don't want to see a CVG case for example.

 

 

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On 1/13/2023 at 3:44 AM, Scottish Punk said:

My two biggest fears with CSG and holding me back from going all in are the fact they grade vintage more like BVG than SGC/PSA, this means they won't be taken seriously in the long run for vintage, and the other mentioned - they will find their niche as the "cheap" grader (even if that perception is wrong in reality).

As mentioned, I would also like to see them jump into more non-sports - hopefully in the CSG holder…

Addressing the end first: I’ve not used CGC. Do they use different holder materials than CSG?

I don’t know how I feel about your comment on BVG and CSG. In my experience, SGC tends to over grade vintage, which would make them closer to BVG.

SGC built their reputation for grading vintage during their “green label” ownership period, when they were owned and run by CCG (the current company that controls CSG & CGC). The new SGC (black label), which has no connection to the original SGC (other than name), uses non-sequential holder numbering (which makes it easier for graders to sell their own SGC submitted cards), was operated by an widely alleged card doctor, and has no policy against its employees and graders submitting and dealing in cards graded by SGC, relies on the hobby’s elevation of grading status.

CSG has hobby veterans on its grading team and backs their work with a grade guarantee. SGC and BGS have no such policies. PSA has a policy in place that is similar to CSG’s.

CSG does have a policy in place to charge for cards that exceed a certain thickness threshold, but that is because they use special thick holders for those cards. I’m not even sure SGC would grade those thicker cards, period.

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On 1/13/2023 at 4:15 PM, northkorea said:

Addressing the end first: I’ve not used CGC. Do they use different holder materials than CSG?

I don’t know how I feel about your comment on BVG and CSG. In my experience, SGC tends to over grade vintage, which would make them closer to BVG.

SGC built their reputation for grading vintage during their “green label” ownership period, when they were owned and run by CCG (the current company that controls CSG & CGC). The new SGC (black label), which has no connection to the original SGC (other than name), uses non-sequential holder numbering (which makes it easier for graders to sell their own SGC submitted cards), was operated by an widely alleged card doctor, and has no policy against its employees and graders submitting and dealing in cards graded by SGC, relies on the hobby’s elevation of grading status.

CSG has hobby veterans on its grading team and backs their work with a grade guarantee. SGC and BGS have no such policies. PSA has a policy in place that is similar to CSG’s.

CSG does have a policy in place to charge for cards that exceed a certain thickness threshold, but that is because they use special thick holders for those cards. I’m not even sure SGC would grade those thicker cards, period.

whats wrong with the thick holders I think they're awesome, Csg does not grade vintage poorly, psa does psa just gives low grades if its old, csg grades the card, Deviation cards cracked a bunch of sgc vintage and sent to csg with same results with .5 difference some with sgc tought some with csg .5 tougher overall it was pretty accurate, dudes glance at a csg vintage and say oh thats overgraded i think thats , crack n sub it to sgc then get back to me., These opinions with no evidence is ridiculous. The csg registry is great cause ya have a chance at winning cause its new its impossible to beat psa registry with 25years of psa collectors, Csg has a good foundation and building a reputation of being consistent, I think csg will move along faster with more subs of high value cards csg is becoming the collectors grader the pc grader i think thats a good start its just gonna take some time, when collectors start to move some of those big PC cards Csg values will start go up, If the card is good and rare ya'll get good money, its been easier selling csg lately they're getting more accepted 

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On 2/14/2023 at 11:24 PM, micky 8 said:

whats wrong with the thick holders I think they're awesome, Csg does not grade vintage poorly, psa does psa just gives low grades if its old, csg grades the card, Deviation cards cracked a bunch of sgc vintage and sent to csg with same results with .5 difference some with sgc tought some with csg .5 tougher overall it was pretty accurate, dudes glance at a csg vintage and say oh thats overgraded i think thats , crack n sub it to sgc then get back to me., These opinions with no evidence is ridiculous. The csg registry is great cause ya have a chance at winning cause its new its impossible to beat psa registry with 25years of psa collectors, Csg has a good foundation and building a reputation of being consistent, I think csg will move along faster with more subs of high value cards csg is becoming the collectors grader the pc grader i think thats a good start its just gonna take some time, when collectors start to move some of those big PC cards Csg values will start go up, If the card is good and rare ya'll get good money, its been easier selling csg lately they're getting more accepted 

Csg mini holders suck tho 😂 they need to add a border or something for the mini's idk 

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Micky 8 -- I agree with every single thing you've said.  PSA sucks a dead donkey's butthole on vintage.  CSG and SGC are way aligned; more than people think, as you stated.  CSG is becoming more accepted too.  I've been auctioning CSG slabs, many of which are ones that I want to get rid of to lower my inventory, and I am getting pretty comparable auction sales to PSA.  It's improving which is so needed!

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On 2/14/2023 at 6:24 PM, micky 8 said:

whats wrong with the thick holders I think they're awesome, Csg does not grade vintage poorly, psa does psa just gives low grades if its old, csg grades the card, Deviation cards cracked a bunch of sgc vintage and sent to csg with same results with .5 difference some with sgc tought some with csg .5 tougher overall it was pretty accurate, dudes glance at a csg vintage and say oh thats overgraded i think thats , crack n sub it to sgc then get back to me., These opinions with no evidence is ridiculous. The csg registry is great cause ya have a chance at winning cause its new its impossible to beat psa registry with 25years of psa collectors, Csg has a good foundation and building a reputation of being consistent, I think csg will move along faster with more subs of high value cards csg is becoming the collectors grader the pc grader i think thats a good start its just gonna take some time, when collectors start to move some of those big PC cards Csg values will start go up, If the card is good and rare ya'll get good money, its been easier selling csg lately they're getting more accepted 

Why did you quote me for this comment? I never said the thick holders were bad.

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