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CSG Ups Its Game with a New Label and Revised Grading Scale!
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140 posts in this topic

Amazing. I took a chance with BGS (I was one of the first to submit to them) at their inception and about 20 years later I find PSA is the top grader since their cards command more. So I sent cards to PSA, but as you know the wait time for the last 2 years or so was disturbing.

So, I took a chance with CSG a year ago (again, I was one of the first to submit to them at their inception) and find apparent indecisiveness today...the green label and grading scale lasted a whole year.

I might as well pay for regrading at PSA instead of paying reholdering anywhere else. Not like I agree with all the grades anyway....and there are label errors.

Or maybe I should cash out and call it a day.

 

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Edited by Dr. A
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On 3/26/2022 at 11:50 AM, CGCRyan said:

@Legacy Man

The cards would get the same grade in the new black label if you send them in for the ReHolder Service. Any green Gem Mint 9.5s would cross to Gem Mint 10 in the new black label.

This is a bit frustrating.  I just got 360 cards graded back in the last week that were submitted at the card show so i just submitted these 3 weeks ago. And a thousand others in the last 2-3 months I just got back.

And now we're expected to send every single 9.5 back in and pay $5 to get a 10 on it? Obviously we need to, for those not more involved in the business that don't know its the same card level. 

 

Out of over 1,000 cards. I got 2 pristine 10's. That was frustrating enough, now all these 9.5's wouldve been 10's on the new scale.

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On 3/26/2022 at 1:47 PM, becker800 said:

This is a bit frustrating.  I just got 360 cards graded back in the last week that were submitted at the card show so i just submitted these 3 weeks ago. And a thousand others in the last 2-3 months I just got back.

And now we're expected to send every single 9.5 back in and pay $5 to get a 10 on it? Obviously we need to, for those not more involved in the business that don't know its the same card level. 

 

Out of over 1,000 cards. I got 2 pristine 10's. That was frustrating enough, now all these 9.5's wouldve been 10's on the new scale.

This sucks but they’re new to the sports card segment and every grading company has gone through changes similar to this.

There’s no way to do this and evolve with the market without upsetting a segment of customers (and that’s true for most businesses).

I’d suggest calling their customer service and asking about a bulk reholder agreement on price.  I have no inside info to think this is possible but there are likely a handful of customers affected by this more than anyone else and perhaps they’ll work to make things right with them.

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On 3/26/2022 at 7:57 AM, CGCRyan said:

I confirmed with our graders: For the ReHolder Service, all green label CSG cards graded 9 or below will get the same grade when crossed to the new black label. Gem Mint 9.5s in the green label will cross to Gem Mint 10 in the new black label. Pristine 10s would also be Gem Mint 10 in the new label.

Thanks! To clarify, the only way to get a black label Mint+ 9.5 is to submit as Grading?

ReHolder service = crosses at same grade for 9 and below (not graded)
Grading service = regraded with the new system

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On 3/25/2022 at 5:36 PM, jdmtdcollector said:

I wish they included CSg 10 pristine into consideration and not juast bundling it with gem mint 10. Its very hard to get a CSG 10 and am very proud of my only one with more than 200+ subs. I am disappointed there but will definitely not reholder that and keep the old green label here. Plus, those of us who paid subgrades should not be charged a reholder fee since we paid the extra for subgrades

I would hold your pristine 10's, unless you didnt get subs and think you have a chance at a perfect 10, but if csg blows up and i think they will, i think the green pristine 10's will be a cool card to have and could increase value because its sharper then there gem mint 10, and agree if you got subs they should wave the reholder fee for that specific card 

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On 3/25/2022 at 6:29 PM, Warner85 said:

Did this apply to old csg labels also? I thought you had to pay for subgrades for a chance to get a “perfect 10”. I have a pristine 10 graded card with no subs. Does that mean it had no chance at a Perfect 10?

if you didnt get subs you have a shot at a perfect 10, you had to get subs last time for the perfect 10

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On 3/26/2022 at 1:47 PM, becker800 said:

This is a bit frustrating.  I just got 360 cards graded back in the last week that were submitted at the card show so i just submitted these 3 weeks ago. And a thousand others in the last 2-3 months I just got back.

And now we're expected to send every single 9.5 back in and pay $5 to get a 10 on it? Obviously we need to, for those not more involved in the business that don't know its the same card level. 

 

Out of over 1,000 cards. I got 2 pristine 10's. That was frustrating enough, now all these 9.5's wouldve been 10's on the new scale.

wow man, hopefully the new gem 10's and new flip get you more value on your resale to help soften the blow, its a big transition but hopefully down the line itll pay ya back, good idea reach out on the side maybe can get some grace when it comes to reholder fees because your a great customer with massive submissions, cause ya got shipping cost too Good Luck!!! 

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On 3/26/2022 at 1:39 PM, Dr. A said:

Amazing. I took a chance with BGS (I was one of the first to submit to them) at their inception and about 20 years later I find PSA is the top grader since their cards command more. So I sent cards to PSA, but as you know the wait time for the last 2 years or so was disturbing.

So, I took a chance with CSG a year ago (again, I was one of the first to submit to them at their inception) and find apparent indecisiveness today...the green label and grading scale lasted a whole year.

I might as well pay for regrading at PSA instead of paying reholdering anywhere else. Not like I agree with all the grades anyway....and there are label errors.

Or maybe I should cash out and call it a day.

 

DSCN5161.JPG

 

DSCN5141.JPG

Cool story bro

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On 3/26/2022 at 1:47 PM, becker800 said:

This is a bit frustrating.  I just got 360 cards graded back in the last week that were submitted at the card show so i just submitted these 3 weeks ago. And a thousand others in the last 2-3 months I just got back.

And now we're expected to send every single 9.5 back in and pay $5 to get a 10 on it? Obviously we need to, for those not more involved in the business that don't know its the same card level. 

 

Out of over 1,000 cards. I got 2 pristine 10's. That was frustrating enough, now all these 9.5's wouldve been 10's on the new scale.

This is why I am waiting until a few months before sending a batch in..

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On 3/25/2022 at 9:48 PM, brianfarm6767 said:

Two quick questions

If I have a green label pristine 10 and reholder to new label would that become a Perfect 10 rather than a Gem Mint 10 on your new grading scale?

Card that are 9's and 8.5's do they automatically get same grade when reholdered or is there a chance they move up or down with the new grading scale?

 

Thanks

A Pristine 10 will be a Gem Mint 10 in the new black label if sent in for the ReHolder Service.  Any green label card graded 9 or below, will be given the same grade in the black label if re-holdered. 

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I might have missed it somewhere, but I don't think that I have seen confirmation on this.  If I send in a Pristine 10 without subgrades for ReHolder service, will it be eligible for the Perfect grade?

Edited by finitefinds
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@CGCRyan I have two questions:

1.  How does a card that previously received a Gem Mint 9.5 transfer to a Gem Mint 10 when the description on the website is EXACTLY the same for the old Gem Mint 9.5 and the new Mint+ 9.5?  The old Pristine 10 description is almost identical to the new Gem Mint 10.  If my Gem Mint 9.5 didn’t meet the criteria for a Pristine 10, how does it meet the new criteria for a Gem Mint 10?

 

2.  How does an old 9.5 Gem Mint with three 9.5 subs and one 9.0 sub equal a new 10 Gem Mint, but an old 9.0 Mint with two 9.5 subs and two 9.0 subs NOT equal a new Mint+ 9.5?  If there is only 0.5 grade difference on one sub grade between a new Gem Mint 10 and a new Mint 9, then what the heck qualifies for a Mint+ 9.5?  You literally cannot get any closer than that!!!

Edited by Glen Campbell
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On 3/27/2022 at 4:04 PM, Glen Campbell said:

I have two questions:

1.  How does a card that previously received a Gem Mint 9.5 transfer to a Gem Mint 10 when the description on the website is EXACTLY the same for the old Gem Mint 9.5 and the new Mint+ 9.5?  The old Pristine 10 description is almost identical to the new Gem Mint 10.  If my Gem Mint 9.5 didn’t meet the criteria for a Pristine 10, how does it meet the new criteria for a Gem Mint 10?

 

2.  How does an old 9.5 Gem Mint with three 9.5 subs and one 9.0 sub equal a new 10 Gem Mint, but an old 9.0 Mint with two 9.5 subs and two 9.0 subs NOT equal a new Mint+ 9.5?  If there is only 0.5 grade difference on one sub grade between a new Gem Mint 10 and a new Mint 9, then what the heck qualifies for a Mint+ 9.5?  You literally cannot get any closer than that!!!

you have a good point but its a new scale theres gonna be a few things that dont make 100% sense with a big transition, I would just take the gem mint 10 and be happy, instead of arguing for a 9.5 mint plus because of the old sub grades, if ya like your 9.5 so much then keep it!! it would be a logistical nightmare to regrade every card according to the old subgrades, its cool there turning 9.5 gems to 10 gems lets not get crazy, you can always crack n resub and try to get that 9 to 9.5 mint plus with the new scale, i think were gonna have to sub and relearn this new scale and the way csg is gonna grade going foward your right the 9.5 is still really strict still 

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On 3/27/2022 at 3:04 PM, Glen Campbell said:

I have two questions:

1.  How does a card that previously received a Gem Mint 9.5 transfer to a Gem Mint 10 when the description on the website is EXACTLY the same for the old Gem Mint 9.5 and the new Mint+ 9.5?  The old Pristine 10 description is almost identical to the new Gem Mint 10.  If my Gem Mint 9.5 didn’t meet the criteria for a Pristine 10, how does it meet the new criteria for a Gem Mint 10?

 

2.  How does an old 9.5 Gem Mint with three 9.5 subs and one 9.0 sub equal a new 10 Gem Mint, but an old 9.0 Mint with two 9.5 subs and two 9.0 subs NOT equal a new Mint+ 9.5?  If there is only 0.5 grade difference on one sub grade between a new Gem Mint 10 and a new Mint 9, then what the heck qualifies for a Mint+ 9.5?  You literally cannot get any closer than that!!!

You're focusing too much on the number and not the scale definitions. The number is irrelevant, it's the scale definition that matters.

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On 3/28/2022 at 9:46 AM, Charles Perry said:

You're focusing too much on the number and not the scale definitions. The number is irrelevant, it's the scale definition that matters.

Actually, I am not.  The old Gem Mint 9.5 definition is exactly the same as the new Mint+ 9.5 definition.  If you read their grading standard and not the title of the category, they are identical.

I don’t disagree with what they are doing, but they need to update their definitions to reflect what they are doing.  

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On 3/28/2022 at 1:08 AM, micky 8 said:

you have a good point but its a new scale theres gonna be a few things that dont make 100% sense with a big transition, I would just take the gem mint 10 and be happy, instead of arguing for a 9.5 mint plus because of the old sub grades, if ya like your 9.5 so much then keep it!! it would be a logistical nightmare to regrade every card according to the old subgrades, its cool there turning 9.5 gems to 10 gems lets not get crazy, you can always crack n resub and try to get that 9 to 9.5 mint plus with the new scale, i think were gonna have to sub and relearn this new scale and the way csg is gonna grade going foward your right the 9.5 is still really strict still 

I actually don’t have any cards that I feel would qualify to make the jump from 9.0 to 9.5.

I am just trying to make sense of the change.

if 20% of all submissions paid for subgrades, that is approx. 150k cards and roughly $1.5 million in revenue for CSG.  If, rough guess, 30% of old Mint 9.0 should qualify for the new 9.5 Mint+, I think it is that the collectors who already paid a premium to get their cards graded with subs should have to crack and resubmit to get what was already earned.

It really would be as simple as creating a one time conversion chart for cards with sub grades over to the new scale that actually created a space for the 9.5 Mint+.

In regards to me loving my old 9.5s, I am okay with the change to a 10.  I just want it to make sense and right now it doesn’t.

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On 3/25/2022 at 11:03 PM, Rocklin65s said:

@CGCRyan about the grading scale, can you please clarify how CSG cards will cross with the new system?

It's unclear to me what will get Mint+ 9.5. For example, would a Mint 9 with subgrades 9/9/9.5/10 bump to Mint+ 9.5? What about with subgrades 10/8.5/10/10? Or 9/8.5/9.5/9?

Perfect 10 > Perfect 10
Pristine 10 > Gem Mint 10
Gem Mint 9.5 > Gem Mint 10
? ? ? > Mint+ 9.5
Mint 9 > Mint 9

From what it looks like, and the board can correct me if I am wrong, is that the Mint+ is essentially a new grade.  What this means in actual grading will be interesting going forward. Since they have this new buffer between what is now a 9 and 10, will they hand out more 9.5s.  I I have a couple 9's with subs 9.5,9.5,9,8.5.  Surface being 8.5.  May take those out and check for prints/smudges and try them again. Also, have one with 10,9.5,9,9.  That seems like a shoe in for 9.5.  Since CSG isn't doing subs, I bet you will start seeing a lot of the "stronger" 9's become 9.5s especially since they aren't automatically making it a 9 because the sub grades tell them so.  We shall see how the market reacts to all this.  I am a collector, so 9's on modern cards are perfectly fine with me, those are Mint cards anyways.

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