My first submission to CSG and 125 graded cards later... 0

[I dont have one]

Just got my online grades from orders I sent to HGA and PSA. While there were a few disappointments as there always are the grades were much more in line with my expectations. I have plenty of experience screening my cards before submitting them but I admit I second guessed myself a bit when an entire 50 card order sent here comes back so grossly out of line on grades. You can think what you want but these new results elsewhere only confirm my prior conclusions they’re under grading and needlessly devaluing cards here. Definitely all set with CSG. They’re a hard pass for me now going forward. 

[northkorea]

On 4/20/2022 at 8:49 AM, I dont have one said:

Just got my online grades from orders I sent to HGA and PSA. While there were a few disappointments as there always are the grades were much more in line with my expectations. I have plenty of experience screening my cards before submitting them but I admit I second guessed myself a bit when an entire 50 card order sent here comes back so grossly out of line on grades. You can think what you want but these new results elsewhere only confirm my prior conclusions they’re under grading and needlessly devaluing cards here. Definitely all set with CSG. They’re a hard pass for me now going forward. 

Are you selling the 50 cards?

[I dont have one]

On 4/20/2022 at 3:31 PM, northkorea said:

Are you selling the 50 cards?

Not now. Wouldn’t make sense. I’d be giving them away pretty much for free. Can’t even get a $1.99 starting bid on eBay for these with CSG 8’s on them now that the market cratered. I tried just for laughs. I’d rather light them on fire than let someone come in last minute and buy them for .99 cents.  PSA 8’s aren’t even worth much now and the bottom line is CSG 8’s are totally worthless. I’ll have to hold them and hope some of the fanboys here are right and the value increases a little bit down the line. If I thought I could get even $10-11 and recover half the money I wasted sending them here I’d do it. I’d say 40 of the 50 aren’t worth spending the $ to regrade. The other 10 will go to SGC or HGA. PSA is far too pricey right now for anything but high value stuff. It was a learning experience that cost me $1,000 +. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Not going to happen. 

[Shockmaster]

On 4/8/2022 at 1:56 PM, I dont have one said:

Anyone looking  at my posts knows what I think of this grading outfit. If you want to waste your $ spend your time breaking your cards out of the CSG holders and then repaying to have them graded elsewhere then by all means go ahead. I personally wish I could get a refund and charge them per hour it takes to bust my cards out of their worthless cases. Then add a fee for someone to come to my house and clean up the broken plastic mess. 

I hope you sent that plastic to be recycled. 

[Shockmaster]

I never get tired of hearing orybabies who think they're expert graders not getting the grades go their way. I love it when you people are not going to reap profits. 

[JohnBurke]

On 4/20/2022 at 4:08 PM, I dont have one said:

Not now. Wouldn’t make sense. I’d be giving them away pretty much for free. Can’t even get a $1.99 starting bid on eBay for these with CSG 8’s on them now that the market cratered. I tried just for laughs. I’d rather light them on fire than let someone come in last minute and buy them for .99 cents.  PSA 8’s aren’t even worth much now and the bottom line is CSG 8’s are totally worthless. I’ll have to hold them and hope some of the fanboys here are right and the value increases a little bit down the line. If I thought I could get even $10-11 and recover half the money I wasted sending them here I’d do it. I’d say 40 of the 50 aren’t worth spending the $ to regrade. The other 10 will go to SGC or HGA. PSA is far too pricey right now for anything but high value stuff. It was a learning experience that cost me $1,000 +. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Not going to happen. 

LOL this same ($1-3 raw) base card isn't worth anything in PSA 8 either. Because it's a cheap base card. 

[I dont have one]

On 4/22/2022 at 11:59 AM, JohnBurke said:

LOL this same ($1-3 raw) base card isn't worth anything in PSA 8 either. Because it's a cheap base card. 

Nooooooooo. Really 🤔? Let’s not play Mickey the dunce ok? We all know what these type cards were getting raw or graded at 9 or above back when they were getting sent in to the TPGs in the first place. Otherwise nobody would have sent them. You think you’re the only one that knows what a common is? Please, go try and fool somebody else with your nonsense. By the way the card pictured is no worse than a 9 anywhere else. At the current prices a PSA 9 isn’t worth much now. So what? That has nothing to do with the argument CSG is under grading and devaluing cards so I digress. Didn’t I just say in that post PSA 8’s aren’t worth much and CSG 8’s are worthless? We already know the PSA 8 is worth nothing now but it sure is a good thing those CSG fanboys that can’t even read the post they quote are here to explain it all to everyone isn’t it? What a 🤡 you are. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by I dont have one

[I dont have one]

On 4/21/2022 at 10:13 PM, Shockmaster said:

I hope you sent that plastic to be recycled. 

I did. The clarity of the plastic was the ONLY good thing about this grading company so it should definitely be recycled into something more useful. 

[JohnBurke]

On 4/22/2022 at 3:12 PM, I dont have one said:

Nooooooooo. Really 🤔? Let’s not play Mickey the dunce ok? We all know what these type cards were getting raw or graded at 9 or above back when they were getting sent in to the TPGs in the first place. Otherwise nobody would have sent them. You think you’re the only one that knows what a common is? Please, go try and fool somebody else with your nonsense. By the way the card pictured is no worse than a 9 anywhere else. At the current prices a PSA 9 isn’t worth much now. So what? That has nothing to do with the argument CSG is under grading and devaluing cards so I digress. Didn’t I just say in that post PSA 8’s aren’t worth much and CSG 8’s are worthless? We already know the PSA 8 is worth nothing now but it sure is a good thing those CSG fanboys that can’t even read the post they quote are here to explain it all to everyone isn’t it? What a 🤡 you are. 

So I'm the clown but you're the one sending in $1 cards to get graded and "flip" for profit. And then coming onto the message boards and whining that your Near Mint card did not get a Gem Mint grade.

Did you even check the pop report for this card? There are 126 graded and 93 scored higher than yours. By the SAME company that you are saying is unfairly grading your cards too harshly. Do you see the flaw in your thinking yet bud? 

(let me guess now you're going to say CSG has a personal vendetta against you)

Either way thanks for the afternoon humor. 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by JohnBurke

[I dont have one]

On 4/22/2022 at 3:56 PM, JohnBurke said:

So I'm the clown but you're the one sending in $1 cards to get graded and "flip" for profit. And then coming onto the message boards and whining that your Near Mint card did not get a Gem Mint grade.

Did you even check the pop report for this card? There are 126 graded and 93 scored higher than yours. By the SAME company that you are saying is unfairly grading your cards too harshly. Do you see the flaw in your thinking yet bud? 

(let me guess now you're going to say CSG has a personal vendetta against you)

Either way thanks for the afternoon humor. 

 

Once again you can’t read. You think you can use what the cards are going for today in this argument? That’s irrelevant.  If you knew anything at all you’d know last year when these $1 cards as you call them started getting sent in to the TPGs they were getting far more. $25-$50 raw on eBay if they looked good. Well, well over a $100 if they got PSA tens. 1992-93 Upper deck Jordan base card PSA 10 was getting $400. 1992-93 Fleer Ultra Jordan base card PSA 10 was over $300. That Jordan common in the picture was getting $60 as a PSA 9 last year so stop blowing your BS would you please. This is why the graders all got overwhelmed with a flood of cards they couldn’t handle. And no I don’t think they have a “vendetta” against me. Thank you for the humor. I just think they’re grading is a minimum of one grade low in almost all cases. Theres a load of people that agree with me here, on blowout and elsewhere. It ain’t just a couple of us ok? Do you see me on any other message boards complaining about grades given to me by PSA? SGC? HGA? No, you don’t. Because they grade fairly. I just got a 5 card allotment PSA order back and have a 15 card HGA one on the way back now. I’m fine with the majority of my grades on those cards. Im happy with almost none of the CSG grades I got. It’s only this low rent outfit I have an issue with. You see a disconnect there? CSG devalues your cards just so they can try and prove they’re the toughest kid on the block. The verdict is in for me and many others. You won’t convince me otherwise and I’m sure I won’t convince you but I’m fine with that. But as far as CSG goes for me  NEVER AGAIN. And to answer your question yes, you’re the clown. Ok bozo 🤡?

Edited April 22, 2022 by I dont have one

[JohnBurke]

On 4/22/2022 at 5:57 PM, I dont have one said:

Once again you can’t read. You think you can use what the cards are going for today in this argument? That’s irrelevant.  If you knew anything at all you’d know last year when these $1 cards as you call them started getting sent in to the TPGs they were getting far more. $25-$50 raw on eBay if they looked good. Well, well over a $100 if they got PSA tens. 1992-93 Upper deck Jordan base card PSA 10 was getting $400. 1992-93 Fleer Ultra Jordan base card PSA 10 was over $300. That Jordan common in the picture was getting $60 as a PSA 9 last year so stop blowing your BS would you please. This is why the graders all got overwhelmed with a flood of cards they couldn’t handle. And no I don’t think they have a “vendetta” against me. Thank you for the humor. I just think they’re grading is a minimum of one grade low in almost all cases. Theres a load of people that agree with me here, on blowout and elsewhere. It ain’t just a couple of us ok? Do you see me on any other message boards complaining about grades given to me by PSA? SGC? HGA? No, you don’t. Because they grade fairly. I just got a 5 card allotment PSA order back and have a 15 card HGA one on the way back now. I’m fine with the majority of my grades on those cards. Im happy with almost none of the CSG grades I got. It’s only this low rent outfit I have an issue with. You see a disconnect there? CSG devalues your cards just so they can try and prove they’re the toughest kid on the block. The verdict is in for me and many others. You won’t convince me otherwise and I’m sure I won’t convince you but I’m fine with that. But as far as CSG goes for me  NEVER AGAIN. And to answer your question yes, you’re the clown. Ok bozo 🤡?

Reasons why your argument is null and void and ridiculous: 

- you’re commenting on overall market fluctuations. That has nothing to do with grading companies. that’s on you for sending it in after the decline, csg wait time on bulk has been like 3 weeks 🤡 
- if you claim that csg graded one grade lower than should be, what do the dozens of people who have that’s same Jordan card in csg 9.5s and 10s, ACTUALLY have? 10.5s and 11s? No obviously your card is just inferior and you can’t accept it. 
-people agree with you because they like easy psa 10s. Csg is strict grading agreed, and that’s because many believe it is a long term play in terms of value.

[northkorea]

On 4/22/2022 at 11:57 AM, I dont have one said:

Once again you can’t read. You think you can use what the cards are going for today in this argument? That’s irrelevant.  If you knew anything at all you’d know last year when these $1 cards as you call them started getting sent in to the TPGs they were getting far more. $25-$50 raw on eBay if they looked good. Well, well over a $100 if they got PSA tens. 1992-93 Upper deck Jordan base card PSA 10 was getting $400. 1992-93 Fleer Ultra Jordan base card PSA 10 was over $300. That Jordan common in the picture was getting $60 as a PSA 9 last year so stop blowing your BS would you please. This is why the graders all got overwhelmed with a flood of cards they couldn’t handle. And no I don’t think they have a “vendetta” against me. Thank you for the humor. I just think they’re grading is a minimum of one grade low in almost all cases. Theres a load of people that agree with me here, on blowout and elsewhere. It ain’t just a couple of us ok? Do you see me on any other message boards complaining about grades given to me by PSA? SGC? HGA? No, you don’t. Because they grade fairly. I just got a 5 card allotment PSA order back and have a 15 card HGA one on the way back now. I’m fine with the majority of my grades on those cards. Im happy with almost none of the CSG grades I got. It’s only this low rent outfit I have an issue with. You see a disconnect there? CSG devalues your cards just so they can try and prove they’re the toughest kid on the block. The verdict is in for me and many others. You won’t convince me otherwise and I’m sure I won’t convince you but I’m fine with that. But as far as CSG goes for me  NEVER AGAIN. And to answer your question yes, you’re the clown. Ok bozo 🤡?

Almost the entire market for those cards was nonsense speculation due to the Jordan TV show. PSA was getting huge premiums BECAUSE of the the delays of over a year to get cards back.

Since you weren't (assumedly) planning to spend $100 to grade a junk wax era Jordan, you would *maybe* have gotten your cards back last month or this month. If you chose BGS, your cards would still be getting graded.

CSG was a reasonable option for $8-$9 to grade cards by the company that was one of the early owners of SGC, with an expectation of your cards being returned in three months. When they transitioned to the $12 price point, that caused a logjam of a additional two months.

Now, we're talking about $12 for five or six weeks wait time vs $50 for nine (PSA) to 15 (BGS) months of wait time before your cards are back in hand.

Realistically, I don't think SGC can even be considered a primary TPG, as they're heavily over-grading cards.

Here is a specific example (three different copies of the same card; ignore the stray white in the green parts... those are dust inside the bag outside the holder):

The two CSG both graded the auto as 8. The SGC got a 10. All three have issues, since Larry Walker likes to use poor quality permanent markers, apparently. While I'm not sure the CSGs both deserved 8s, I'm certain none of the primary national graders would have given the SGC auto a 10.

Edited April 23, 2022 by northkorea

[I dont have one]

🙄. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by I dont have one

[northkorea]

On 4/22/2022 at 3:21 PM, I dont have one said:

Duh. Maybe you don’t but who else that buys graded cards doesn’t like PSA 10’s? You live in some alternate universe where this so called tougher grading has some value. In the real world where people spend their money guess what, it doesn’t. And I don’t think it’s going to change either. They’ll just drive more and more people who submitted once to abandon ship here like they did with me and many others. We can keep arguing about it for weeks but instead we will see who’s right a year or so from now ok. I’m done with this. It’s boring now. You can keep sending your stuff here. Good luck. 

Again, rather than wasting $50+ to have these commons regraded by PSA, hoping to get 10s, you really should just sell them in the CSG holders.

[I dont have one]

On 4/22/2022 at 9:12 PM, JohnBurke said:

 

On 4/22/2022 at 9:12 PM, JohnBurke said:

Reasons why your argument is null and void and ridiculous: 

- you’re commenting on overall market fluctuations. That has nothing to do with grading companies. that’s on you for sending it in after the decline, csg wait time on bulk has been like 3 weeks 🤡 
- if you claim that csg graded one grade lower than should be, what do the dozens of people who have that’s same Jordan card in csg 9.5s and 10s, ACTUALLY have? 10.5s and 11s? No obviously your card is just inferior and you can’t accept it. 
-people agree with you because they like easy psa 10s. Csg is strict grading agreed, and that’s because many believe it is a long term play in terms of value.

Duh. Maybe you don’t but who else that buys graded cards doesn’t like PSA 10’s? You live in some alternate universe where this so called tougher grading has some value. In the real world where people spend their money guess what, it doesn’t. And I don’t think it’s going to change either. They’ll just drive more and more people who submitted once to abandon ship here like they did with me and many others. We can keep arguing about it for weeks but instead we will see who’s right a year or so from now ok. I’m done with this. It’s boring now. You can keep sending your stuff here. Good luck. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by I dont have one

[I dont have one]

On 4/22/2022 at 9:25 PM, northkorea said:

Again, rather than wasting $50+ to have these commons regraded by PSA, hoping to get 10s, you really should just sell them in the CSG holders.

I have no intention to regrade the majority of these cards for $50 a card. I’ll send 8-10 of them that graded 8.5 or 9 to SGC for regrading and will probably get 9.5’s & 10’s. Then I’ll sell those. The rest will be thrown in the closet for a few years. I’d rather that or light them on fire than sell them under graded in CSG 8 or 8.5 holders for $1.49

[northkorea]

On 4/22/2022 at 3:30 PM, I dont have one said:

I have no intention to regrade the majority of these cards for $50 a card. I’ll send 8-10 of them that graded 8.5 or 9 to SGC for regrading and will probably get 9.5’s & 10’s. Then I’ll sell those. The rest will be thrown in the closet for a few years. I’d rather that or light them on fire than sell them under graded in CSG 8 or 8.5 holders for $1.49

While I agree that SGC tends to overgrade cards, you may want to temper your expectations. If SGC's standards are truly two steps (one full integer grade) worse than CSG's, SGC might start being viewed the same as HGA for grading standards.

[I dont have one]

On 4/22/2022 at 9:39 PM, northkorea said:

While I agree that SGC tends to overgrade cards, you may want to temper your expectations. If SGC's standards are truly two steps (one full integer grade) worse than CSG's, SGC might start being viewed the same as HGA for grading standards.

I didn’t say SGC over grades. You did. So we don’t agree on that. I said SGC and PSA grade fairly and comparably. I said CSG under grades in comparison to all the other reputable TPGs. Maybe you like it that they under grade compared to the others. The resale market certainly doesn’t appreciate it from an ROI perspective and thats hard to dispute right now. To each his own as they say. And it’s all subjective to a degree but a year or so ago some people said SGC was too harsh. So there you go. The major problem I have here is there’s a few fanboys who refuse to respect some peoples opinions that CSG under grades and devalues. They condescendingly tell you to learn how to screen cards like we haven’t done it hundreds and hundreds of times and gotten better results elsewhere. Even those that speculate that this CSG under grading will create value in the future somewhat agree the value isn’t there now so it’s not some far out position I’m taking.  I won’t be sending any more cards here ever again but good luck to anyone that continues to do so. You’re entitled to your opinions and to spend your grading dollars as you see fit  

. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by I dont have one

[northkorea]

On 4/22/2022 at 4:33 PM, I dont have one said:

I didn’t say SGC over grades. You did. So we don’t agree on that. I said SGC and PSA grade fairly and comparably. I said CSG under grades in comparison to all the other reputable TPGs. Maybe you like it that they under grade compared to the others. The resale market certainly doesn’t appreciate it from an ROI perspective and thats hard to dispute right now. To each his own as they say. And it’s all subjective to a degree but a year or so ago some people said SGC was too harsh. So there you go. The major problem I have here is there’s a few fanboys who refuse to respect some peoples opinions that CSG under grades and devalues. They condescendingly tell you to learn how to screen cards like we haven’t done it hundreds and hundreds of times and gotten better results elsewhere. Even those that speculate that this CSG under grading will create value in the future somewhat agree the value isn’t there now so it’s not some far out position I’m taking.  I won’t be sending any more cards here ever again but good luck to anyone that continues to do so.  

. 

You never said SGC and PSA grade fairly. You said repeatedly that PSA grades soft, and that's why you think people use them. The reason PSA graded cards sell at a premium is two-fold: Registry Points and a high acquisition cost. If SGC and PSA graded exactly the same, people would STILL pay a premium for PSA cards for those reasons.

You started your complaints by saying no one would buy your CSG 8.5 cards for PSA 10 money. When confronted about how PSA costs more for grading services than CSG, you said you would use SGC for regrading, claiming that your CSG 7.5 and 8 graded cars would grade out at SGC as 9.5 or 10.

If you submitted those cracked out 6.5 & 7 cards to PSA, you would have PSA 7s that you would have paid (at the time) $125 to grade.

Clearly, you wouldn't spend $125 to grade commons, if you're saying you wouldn't pay the current PSA Economy price of $50.

I've found, that PSA 9s on pre-junk wax era cards and ultra-moderns *sometimes* get a premium above what should be expected, since PSA has a large gap between grades 9 and 10. For junk wax cards, PSA 8 - PSA 9 cards garner a slight premium to raw... but nowhere close to the grading fees incurred.

Green SGC 92 (8.5) might get PSA 8 or PSA 9 grades, but they also seem to garner Black SGC 9 & 9.5 grades at similar rates. Essentially, we're talking about grade inflation of a step grade from PSA to SGC. Based upon my limited sample size, CSG has about the same step (0.5 pts) grade inflation when transitioning to SGC.

Assuming you had raw cards that you just wanted to flip, then I would understand the decision to use SGC for your cards. After all, SGC does a good job of getting higher prices from new speculators who don't fully understand or appreciate why different grading companies have different grades.

If you're saying that inflation is closer to two or three steps (1-1.5 points), that puts SGC into the same category as BCCG. Although I don't buy many SGC graded cards (I think I own two greens and one black), I sure do hope you're wrong. If your claim is right, it won't be long before SGC is out of business, yet again.

[I dont have one]

On 4/22/2022 at 10:56 PM, northkorea said:

You never said SGC and PSA grade fairly. You said repeatedly that PSA grades soft, and that's why you think people use them. The reason PSA graded cards sell at a premium is two-fold: Registry Points and a high acquisition cost. If SGC and PSA graded exactly the same, people would STILL pay a premium for PSA cards for those reasons.

You started your complaints by saying no one would buy your CSG 8.5 cards for PSA 10 money. When confronted about how PSA costs more for grading services than CSG, you said you would use SGC for regrading, claiming that your CSG 7.5 and 8 graded cars would grade out at SGC as 9.5 or 10.

If you submitted those cracked out 6.5 & 7 cards to PSA, you would have PSA 7s that you would have paid (at the time) $125 to grade.

Clearly, you wouldn't spend $125 to grade commons, if you're saying you wouldn't pay the current PSA Economy price of $50.

I've found, that PSA 9s on pre-junk wax era cards and ultra-moderns *sometimes* get a premium above what should be expected, since PSA has a large gap between grades 9 and 10. For junk wax cards, PSA 8 - PSA 9 cards garner a slight premium to raw... but nowhere close to the grading fees incurred.

Green SGC 92 (8.5) might get PSA 8 or PSA 9 grades, but they also seem to garner Black SGC 9 & 9.5 grades at similar rates. Essentially, we're talking about grade inflation of a step grade from PSA to SGC. Based upon my limited sample size, CSG has about the same step (0.5 pts) grade inflation when transitioning to SGC.

Assuming you had raw cards that you just wanted to flip, then I would understand the decision to use SGC for your cards. After all, SGC does a good job of getting higher prices from new speculators who don't fully understand or appreciate why different grading companies have different grades.

If you're saying that inflation is closer to two or three steps (1-1.5 points), that puts SGC into the same category as BCCG. Although I don't buy many SGC graded cards (I think I own two greens and one black), I sure do hope you're wrong. If your claim is right, it won't be long before SGC is out of business, yet again.

I agree they get more for PSA than SGC and registry is likely one reason why. I don’t think you can quote anyplace where I said those services grade softly. While HGA is new and I’m not totally sure how I feel about them yet, PSA and SGC have both been around a long time. They set the current standards and CSG under grades by comparison. That’s just fact. If you look through my posts you’ll see “more fair” and “fairly” multiple times as regards to PSA, SGC or HGA. No place will you see “soft”. Maybe your opinion is that PSA and SGC over grade. I have no problem with someone else having that perspective. But I’m also not new at this. Ive been collecting for over 30 years. I’d say I’ve found you to be reasonable and we’ve had a good back and forth debate. We agree on some things and disagree on others. And that’s fine. What a small group of people here just can’t seem to admit is that maybe it’s CSG that is under grading. Or that other people have that opinion and it might be valid. There are obviously variations from card to card but the major glaring issue for me is CSGs ridiculous surface grading. Other graders simply do not agree with their take on surface. We don’t need a sports card scrutinized with the Hubble space telescope to be graded properly. If you can’t see it with the eye and you can’t see it with the 10x lighted jewelers loupe that I use then it’s not important to a collector. Let me get more specific. So if a CSG card gets 9 centering, 9.5 corners, 9 edges, but a foolishly harsh 7.5 on surface they totally devalue the card giving it an overall  8. It’s a joke. They’re likely only about a half point low on centering to me but comparable on edges and corners in my personal opinion. In this example the card would be 9.5 centering, 9.5 corners, 9 edges and their surface grades in particular are off the reservation needing the 1-1.5 adjustment in a lot of cases so 8.5- 9 surface. This card should grade at worst a 9 and they grade it an 8 usually due to that one factor they are way, way off on. Clearly other people feel this way as well. And we’re entitled to that opinion. And it’s backed up currently by ROI despite other factors including registries. I don’t think it’s going to change either but in the end time will tell. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by I dont have one